5 cm KwK used in fortifications

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 24 May 2003 22:11

Until 1942, over 1800 Kwk`s had been placed in fortifications in the Atlanticwall. The canons were old tank-guns re-used when they couldn`t match the Russian armour anymore. Due to the close distances on the beaches, these guns were still a leathal weapon against enemy armour. It is said that a L/60 could penetrate the front armour of a Sherman at 100 Meters.

In this article, I will (try to) explain some more about these guns.

5c m KwK L/42
Barrel lenght: 2103 mm
Max velocity: 685 m/s

5 cm KwK L/60 (with muzzle breake)
Barrel length: 3000mm
Max velocity: 1180 m/s

Manufacturers:
Karges-Hammer & Franz Garny

Both cannons used the same mounting, called "Behelfssockellafette" (Bh.sk.L)

Bh.SK.L
Elevation: -9 > +43 degrees
Traverse: 360 degrees

These guns were widely used as flanking defence in coastal artillery batteries. Some strongpoints also had them, but usually, they came better out using a mobile PAK. The purpose of these weapons, was to stop tanks which were allready on the beach.
As the KwK had a high sihouette, It was camoflaged, or well defended against direct fire from the sea.
In most occations, the KwK will not be able to fire on sea targets, only on the beaches.

In the beginning of the war, they were placed in open emplacements in the terrain. At a later stage, a "ringstand" design was widely used. When the airstrikes became more frequent, casemats covering the entire gun were introduced.

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 24 May 2003 22:13

Open emplacements:
These emplacements only consist of a concrete plate, with bolts to attach the Bh.SK.L. The emplacement is usually hidden behind sand dunes, rocks or other natural defences.

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 24 May 2003 22:14

Ringstand:
The Rs-65a was a standarized emplacement for KwK`s. It consisted of a base for the gun, and a ammunition store.
These emplacements are often connected via tunnels or trenches to a quarter for the troops.

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 24 May 2003 22:16

Covered emplacements:
By 1943, the need for casemates grew higher due to increasing air strikes.
3 covered emplacements were standarized within the "Regelbau" system, R-653, R-654 and R-667. On some beaches, the KwK was supposed to cover the beach in both directions. To solve this several special
constructions with several openings were built.
A new open emplacement, R-600, was also added. This was a open emplacement, but unlike the Rs-65a, it was directly connected to a troopshelter.

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 24 May 2003 22:20

And finally, the mounting for the Bh.SK.L:

Regards
Erik E

Javichu · Post by **Javichu** » 25 May 2003 01:16

¡Estupendas Fotos!That L42 is a Tank Gun indeed...The Gunner shield and the mount for the spent cartridge bag are still there,also the breech opens downwards...
What still puzzles me is that if obsolete tank guns were used... Why should they use the KwK39/1 L60? By 1943 it was still in use in 234/2.Not an obsolete gun at all (1942) and It was a specific design for "Pumas"...

It could have any sense if they were specially made for fortifications or if they were Modified PaK38...But if not why should German Army spend a useable tank gun in a fixed fortress?
Or maybe they were KwK39 L60

but these didn´t have muzzle brake

The only KwK39 L60 with Muzzle Brake was the one used in 234/2 (KwK39/1 L60)
Anyway I feel that there is something wrong or uncommon in that KwK39/1 at Pegasus Bridge...

Redbaron1908 · Post by **Redbaron1908** » 25 May 2003 01:41

Great Photos and artile Erik I did not know that these guns were reused.
Always nice to learn something new.

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 25 May 2003 17:38

Hello!

As you know, the guns are allways made at a earlier stage than the vehicle it should be used in.......
The L60 was meant for the PzIII J-series, but when Pz IV got in production, the Pz III building stopped. Over 1500 complete 5cm`s were finished, so instead they were used in fortifications.

In a book I have, there is wartime photos from 6 different KwK 39L/60`s, and they all have the muzzle breake.......

As far as I know, the rather weak mounting of the Bh.SK.L would not withstand the recoil produced by fireing a "Panzergranate 40", without a muzzle break.....

Regards
Erik E

Korbius · Post by **Korbius** » 25 May 2003 18:53

Javichu wrote: Anyway I feel that there is something wrong or uncommon in that KwK39/1 at Pegasus Bridge...

Do you think it is because of the muzzle break or something else? I saw 4 more such cannons along the Normandy coast, and all of them had the muzzle break just as the one in the Pegasus bridge.

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 25 May 2003 19:17

I have no problem with the "Pegasus bridge" L/60......
In every book, photo, web-page+++ I have seen the L/60, the Muzzlebrake was/is there......

Erik

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » 25 May 2003 19:31

Erik,

Excellent photos.

/Marcus

Javichu · Post by **Javichu** » 26 May 2003 01:51

Erik ,I don´t know ANYTHING about fortifications...I still haven´t seen one and living in the Cannary Islands I doubt I´ll ever see one.
But no KwK39 L/60 used in Pz3 were fitted with a muzzle brake.It was a direct derivative of PaK38 WITHOUT muzzle brake and with the ordinary modifications made on guns to fit in a tank turret...So these KwK39 you have seen all over Europe couldn´t have been used from PzIII without previous modification.
The only KwK39/1 L60 with muzzle brake were the ones designed for the turret used in Pumas (Hence .../1)
I agree that Muzzle Brake could have been fitter latter to better support the recoil of the gun when mounted in weaker mounts .
That´s why I asked for a photo of the rear of the one on Pegasus Bridge because I think there are slight differences between KwK39 and KwK39/1 ...

karltrowitz · Post by **karltrowitz** » 26 May 2003 07:53

Excellent photos Erik.Looking at the photos you have put on the site over the last few months,i'm going to have to arrange a trip to Norway.Being an Atlantikwall "nut" your photos are greatly appreciated.

Erik E · Post by **Erik E** » 26 May 2003 09:07

But no KwK39 L/60 used in Pz3 were fitted with a muzzle brake.It was a direct derivative of PaK38 WITHOUT muzzle brake and with the ordinary modifications made on guns to fit in a tank turret...So these KwK39 you have seen all over Europe couldn´t have been used from PzIII without previous modification.

Thanks! This is what I thought, but didn`t know for sure

Can you tell me the difference between kwk39 and 39/1(exept the muzzle brake) ??

Erik

Karltrowitz:

i'm going to have to arrange a trip to Norway

If you decide to do so, be sure to PM me, as I can save you from many hours of meaningless searching on the beaches

Javichu · Post by **Javichu** » 30 May 2003 01:48

Not sure about the differences.Just a short paragraph in two books ...Appart from the muzzle brake The gun was modified to fit in the narrower Puma turret (Initially intended to be used in another AFV that never went ahead from the prototype...Leopard)I think that it could be repositioning-resizing the recoil cylinders and a newer design for the gun mount itself...Maybe.
Anyway there´s a Puma gun preserved at Germany and there´s some pics in the web that I have seen before ( I only have to find them again

.Lost the URL.Maybe Jagdtiger.de???)So if there are some pics of the rear of that KwK in fortifications we´ll have only to compare...

Axis History Forum

5 cm KwK used in fortifications

5 cm KwK used in fortifications

Interesting info,Fotos estupendas...But

Re: Interesting info,Fotos estupendas...But