German tank deliveries to North Africa

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Dili
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Dili » 10 Jun 2018 15:35

Also if you have the table in a spreadsheet you can just take a screenshot and post it as an image.

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tigre
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by tigre » 01 Jan 2020 14:47

Hello to all :D; more.......................................

To Libya 1941.

A Pz Kw III Ausf. H being loaded aboard.....bound for Africa..

Source: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missing ... 9-s50.html

Which ship? Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

Feliz Año Nuevo - Happy New Year - feliz Ano Novo - gluckliches Neues Jahr - Bonne Année - Felice Anno Nuovo - Szczęśliwego nowego roku!! :thumbsup:
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tigre
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by tigre » 14 Apr 2020 14:46

Hello to all :D; more.......................................

Tripoli 1941.

Source: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missing ... 9-s40.html

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Counter
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Counter » 24 May 2020 21:53

Hi!

I was watching this thread and I am getting confused as looking for a particular datum that I suppose you have here... but I can not find...

I am just interested in learning how much german tanks type Mark III and IV ("special" or not) were allocated for the African front between mid-june and mid-november 1942 (between the battles of Gazala and second Alamein). The reason why this information interests me has to do with learning how much armor strength was lost for the Eastern Front in that period due to the necessity to supply Rommel for his ill-fated mission in Egypt.

I know that, at least, they used in the second Alamein 100 tanks III special and IV special arrived to Africa on those days, but I presume that more were sent, some of them lost maybe in other battles (like Alam Halfa) and some others lost in the sea... I would like to get that figure...

Thank you very much

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Urmel
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Urmel » 26 May 2020 07:43

Afraid I don’t have reliable data after March 1942.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 26 May 2020 11:08

The Strength Chart in "Workhorse" gives 76 x Pz III lang and 2 x Pz IV lang as the replacements sent in July/August but I don't know how reliable that is.
Alan

Counter
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Counter » 26 May 2020 18:24

What I got is that

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/ba ... azala.html

According to this text, in Gazala (june 1942) Rommel had "His most effective tanks were 19 Panzer III 'specials', armed with the long L/60 50mm gun. He also had 232 of the older Panzer IIIs with the shorter L/42 50mm gun and forty Panzer IV, which at this date were armed with a short barrelled 75mm howitzer and were really infantry support tanks. "

That is: 19 Pz III "specials", 232 Pz III and 40 Pz IV

And here, about stregth german armor in El Alamein (october 1942)

http://gregpanzerblitz.com/El%20Alamein ... lamein.pdf

That is: 88 Pz III "specials", 85 Pz III, 8 Pz IV and 30 Pz IV "specials"

So, from one battle to the other, AT LEAST 30 Pz IV "specials" and 69 Pz III "specials" were new...

Maybe using other sources I could improved the tally... For example, learning how many tanks were irrecoverable losses in the battles between Gazala and second Alamein

(I am not counting the assault guns...)

Richard Anderson
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Richard Anderson » 26 May 2020 18:41

Number of tanks delivered/lost in transit:

Panzer III
March 42 - 6/3
April 42 - 14/0
May 42 - 33/6
June 42 - 2/6
July 42 - 47/3
August 42 - 29/3
September 42 - 7/9

Panzer IV
May 42 - 9/0
July 42 - 10/0
August 42 - 10/0
September 42 - 12/0

However, as Andreas says, take with a grain of salt.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

Counter
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Counter » 26 May 2020 22:44

Thank you so much Richard! :D

These figures fit together well with my tally... I see "32" Panzer IV arrived up to September. Nearly the "30" figure I got.

So it could be Panzer IV "32" and Panzer III "83"... delivered, plus "15" lost. It makes sense: "130" tanks less for the Ostfront

Kelvin
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Kelvin » 29 May 2020 11:47

Hi, everyone, I am collecting German tank deliveries to Tunisia during November 1941 :

10. Panzer Division with actual arrvial : 8 x Pz IV, 89 x Pz III L60, 19 x Pz II and 6 x Pz Bef

sPz.Abt.501 with 20 x Tiger and 25 x Pz IIIN

Pz.Abt.190 with 52 x Pz III, 10 x Pz IV, 7 x Pz II and 2 Bef

22 x Pz IV Long , each 11 to 15. and 21. Pz divisions.

Any more Addition in November 1942 ? Even Italian tanks data are welcome.

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Andy H
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by Andy H » 03 Jun 2020 15:33

Hi

For what its worth this is from Hitler and His Generals (Military Conferences 1942-45) by Hieber & Glantz
Dec1st: Jodl states that on November 27th two ships arrived in Tunis, carrying 32PzIII’s 1 Tiger and 2 tanks with long guns, so altogether 35 tanks and 28 patrol cars.
Regards

Andy H

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tigre
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by tigre » 10 Jul 2020 02:49

Hello to all :D; more.......................................

To Libya 1941.

Source: https://picclick.de/DAK-Panzer-Kennung- ... id=1&pid=1

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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neicox1204
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by neicox1204 » 21 Jul 2020 18:40

Hi All,

have to say Im really impressed with the details you guys have on this thread, some really great work done.

not sure if any of you know I was the guy who found the Tiger Tank in Germany with the help of a couple of local German guys one I believe Xavier may still post on here. I had the TV company and money in place for that project but with it being in Germany and under the current political climate we were never going to get permission to dig it out. We did also make a program with Channel 5 & the History Channel about digging up a Spitfire and the original pilot was still alive at the time and came over to see his plane.

I have the old Magnetometer plots somewhere that shows the tank deep down if I can dig them out will post on here so you can see the results.

Im working on a couple of locations on missing Tiger Tanks and am looking for any information you have about one I believe was lost being shipped to Italy on board the SS Menes. If anyone could shed any light on this would be great. I think this was the only Tiger lost at sea in North Africa but maybe Im wrong.

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tigre
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Re: German tank deliveries to North Africa

Post by tigre » 30 Aug 2020 02:16

Hello to all :D; more...............................

Pz Kw III to Libya 1941.

Sources: https://www.ebay.de/b/Militaria-Fotos-1 ... n_16578829

Cheers. Raul M 8-).
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