Bush at Auschwitz Compared to What Hoess Said

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Max2Cam
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Bush at Auschwitz Compared to What Hoess Said

Post by Max2Cam » 31 May 2003 16:41

I am re-reading the book Interrogations and came to the interview with Auschwitz commandant Rodolf Hoess from 1941-1943 just as President Bush visited Auschwitz and made some public remarks. It is an interesting comparison what Bush said and what Hoess claimed back in 1946. Can anyone explain the 1-1.5 million number descrepency between these two accounts? When and why was the Hoess testimony discredited? Or is the Reuter's article just plain wrong and the correct number should be 2.5/3 million?

First Hoess (p.384):

Q: Two and one-half million you say?

A: Yes

Q: Are you a little confused just now?

A: The reasons why I remember the number, two and one-half million is because it was repeateldly told to me that Auschwitz was to have exterminated four or five million, but that was not so...

Q: The two and on-half million were people delivered to Auschwitz, were they the ones executed?

A: Executed and exterminated...

Q: Were these two and one-half million people gassed?

A: Yes.

Q: And how about the half million which were put to death by other means?

A: They were those who died from deseases, and who perished by other sicknesses in the camp...

(Note: this seems to make a total of 3 million who died at Auschwitz according to Rudolf Hoess 2.5 million gassed plus 1/2 million who died from sickness = 3 million).

==========

Now from a Reuter's article of 31 May 2003:

Auschwitz, Says 'Evil' Must Be Resisted

Sat May 31, 2003 08:10 AM ET
By Adam Entous

OSWIECIM, Poland (Reuters) - A grim-faced President Bush toured the Auschwitz-Birkenau death camps on Saturday, pausing at the ruins of a Nazi crematorium to state his case for standing up to "evil" dictators and terrorism.

"Mankind must come together to fight such dark impulses," Bush said at the sprawling complex where Nazi German invaders committed genocide during World War II with assembly-line efficiency...

Nearly 1.5 million people, mostly Jews, were murdered in the twin camps of Auschwitz-Birkenau at the edge of the town now known by its Polish name Oswiecim. Jews regard Auschwitz as their biggest graveyard and the main symbol of the Holocaust.

===

See what I mean? A very large descrepency in numbers. How come? This must have been noted and discussed before...
===========
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Post by ajk74 » 31 May 2003 18:42

Hello,
As far as I have read, the 2.5 million figure was an overestimation, based on the maximum capacity of Auschwitz over the course of a couple of years. The number was given to Hoess by his interrogators as far as I can remember. I don't think most historians take the 2.5-3 million seriously anymore.When Hoess worked out his own calculations, he arrived at 1.1-1.5 million. According to Van Pelt, in his most recent book on Auschwitz, the most likely number is 1-1.5 million. 2.5 million at Auschwitz alone does seem pretty high, as it would mean approximately half the Jews killed during the war were killed at Auschwitz, which is untenable. The Einsatzgruppen killed 1-1.5 million and there were also five other extermination camps, plus the entire concentration-labor camp system. Off the top of my head, that's my two cents.
Regards,
Adam

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Re: Bush at Auschwitz Compared to What Hoess Said

Post by Hans » 31 May 2003 18:48

Max2Cam wrote: See what I mean? A very large descrepency in numbers. How come? This must have been noted and discussed before...
Rudolf Höss was simply wrong with the 2,5 Million. And he knew that this fígure couldn't be true, here is what he wrote to the court psychologist Gilbert in Nuremberg:
On the basis of the figure of 2.5 million, which is the number of people who - according to Eichmann - were brought to Auschwitz for extermination, it may be said that, on the average, two transports arrived daily, with a combined total of 4,000 persons, of whom twenty- five per cent were fit for work, the balance of 3,000 were to be exterminated. The intervals in the various operations can be computed together at nine months. Thus there remain 27 months, with 90,000 people each month - a total of 2,430,000 people. This is a calculation of the technical potential. I have to keep to the figure mentioned by Eichmann, for he was the only SS officer who was allowed to keep records concerning these liquidation operations, according to the orders of the Reichsfuehrer-SS.

All other units which took part in any way had to destroy all records immediately. Eichmann mentioned this number in my presence when he was called upon, in April 1945, to present a report to the Reichsfuehrer-SS. I had no records whatsoever. But, to the best of my knowledge, this number appears to me much too high. If I calculate the total of the mass operations which I still remember, and still make allowance for a certain percentage of error, I arrive, in my calculation, at a total of 1.5 million at the most, for the period from the beginning of 1941 to the end of 1944. But these are my computations which I cannot verify.

Nuremberg, 24 April 1946 [siganture] Rudolf Hoess

[at the bottom]: Hungary - 400,000; Slovakia - 90,000; Greece - 65,000; Holland - 90,000; France - 110,000; Belgium - 20,000; the region of the Generalgouvernement and Upper Silesia - 250,000; Germany and Terezin - 100,000. Total - 1,125,000.

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Post by David Thompson » 31 May 2003 20:59

A post by Max2Cam raising a question about an article which was published in the 27 Nov 1942 issue of the "Israelitische Wochenblatt" has been moved to a thread of its own, at:

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=23601

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Post by Dan » 31 May 2003 23:53

Hoess was tortured by the British into making false claims. The most likely number of victims of the gas chambers according to what leading historians now believe is around 700,000 give or take a few hundred thousand. The news reports also err in using the dates of 1940 to 1945 as to when the homicidal gassings took place.

A good rule of thumb is to assume anything you read or hear from the main stream media is wrong.

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Post by michael mills » 01 Jun 2003 04:50

It is not that Hoess was wrong about the 2.5-3.0 million figure. Nor did he make it up.

That figure manifestly derives from an exaggerated estimate of numbers exterminated made by the two prisoners Rosenberg (Vrba) and Wetzlar, who escaped from Auschwitz in April 1944 and made a report to the Jewish underground in Slovakia. A report based on their material was published by the War Refugee Board late in 1944.

The figure of 2.5 million gassed is based on the Vrba/Wetzlar estimate, with the addition of somewhat over 0.5 million to take account of the Hungarian dportation, which had not yet begun when the two prisoners escaped. To that figure a further 0.5 million was added to take account of prisoners who had not been gassed but had died from other causes; that figure seems to be plucked out of thin air (although German records show the deaths of about 300,000 of the approximately 400,000 prisoners registered).

Since Vrba and Wetzlar transmitted their estimate in April 1944, and it had been disseminated by the WRB report later that year, by the time Hoess was captured in March 1946, the 2.5-3.0 million figure had become widely known, although it had to compete with the 4.0 million figure put out by the Soviet authorities in May 1945. It is likely that the 2.5-3.0 million figure was suggested to Hoess at his first interrogation by British intelligence officers in March; he adopted it, and regurgitated it whenever he was asked at successive interrogations for an overall figure of numbers exterminated.

However, whenever Hoess was asked to give estimates of the numbers of Jews arriving from various countries, his figures (exaggerated in some cases, eg France, the Netherlands, Poland, Germany) invariably added up to just over one million. And that was the number of arrivals, of which an unknown proportion was preserved for forced labour. Hoess's interrogators do not seem to have been overly concerned about the discrepancy between the two figures given by Hoess at his interrogations.

In November 1946, while in Polish custody and undergoing pre-trial examination, Hoess prepared, at the request of his chief Polish interrogator, Judge Sehn, a written report called "The 'Final Solution of the Jewish Question' at KL Auschwitz". In that report, Hoess explicitly rejected the 2.5-3.0 million figure, calling it an exaggeration by survivors, and insisting that the real figure was just over one million.

However, at Hoess's trial, the Polish prosecution claimed that 3 million persons had been exterminated at Auschwitz, and Hoess did not dispute that claim. His report to Judge Sehn was not introduced in evidence at the trial, and in fact was not made public by the Polish Government until the late 50s.

Hoess's own figure, based on his computation of totals from the various countris, is itself exaggerated to some extent. When that exaggeration is removed, we get a total of around 900,000 Jews arriving at Auschwitz, close to half from Hungary in 1944. That is the figure that Reitlinger arrived at in 1953.

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Post by Roberto » 02 Jun 2003 14:03

michael mills wrote:It is not that Hoess was wrong about the 2.5-3.0 million figure. Nor did he make it up.

That figure manifestly derives from an exaggerated estimate of numbers exterminated made by the two prisoners Rosenberg (Vrba) and Wetzlar, who escaped from Auschwitz in April 1944 and made a report to the Jewish underground in Slovakia. A report based on their material was published by the War Refugee Board late in 1944.

The figure of 2.5 million gassed is based on the Vrba/Wetzlar estimate, with the addition of somewhat over 0.5 million to take account of the Hungarian dportation, which had not yet begun when the two prisoners escaped. To that figure a further 0.5 million was added to take account of prisoners who had not been gassed but had died from other causes; that figure seems to be plucked out of thin air (although German records show the deaths of about 300,000 of the approximately 400,000 prisoners registered).

Since Vrba and Wetzlar transmitted their estimate in April 1944, and it had been disseminated by the WRB report later that year, by the time Hoess was captured in March 1946, the 2.5-3.0 million figure had become widely known, although it had to compete with the 4.0 million figure put out by the Soviet authorities in May 1945. It is likely that the 2.5-3.0 million figure was suggested to Hoess at his first interrogation by British intelligence officers in March; he adopted it, and regurgitated it whenever he was asked at successive interrogations for an overall figure of numbers exterminated.
Another possibility is that this figure was given to Hoess by Eichmann and referred to the total number of Jews killed in all extermination camps, or to the total number killed by all methods until a given time, e.g. until 31.12.1942, the reference date of Korherr’s Report on "The Final Solution of the European Jewish Question". Why always jump to conspiratorial speculations ?
michael mills wrote:However, whenever Hoess was asked to give estimates of the numbers of Jews arriving from various countries, his figures (exaggerated in some cases, eg France, the Netherlands, Poland, Germany) invariably added up to just over one million. And that was the number of arrivals, of which an unknown proportion was preserved for forced labour. Hoess's interrogators do not seem to have been overly concerned about the discrepancy between the two figures given by Hoess at his interrogations.
Did Hoess state the lower figure at any interrogation prior to the memoirs he wrote in Polish captivity?

If so, can we see the protocol(s) of such interrogation(s)?
michael mills wrote:In November 1946, while in Polish custody and undergoing pre-trial examination, Hoess prepared, at the request of his chief Polish interrogator, Judge Sehn, a written report called "The 'Final Solution of the Jewish Question' at KL Auschwitz". In that report, Hoess explicitly rejected the 2.5-3.0 million figure, calling it an exaggeration by survivors, and insisting that the real figure was just over one million.
This was what Hoess wrote in Appendix I to his memoirs (from the translation by Constantine FitzGibbon edited by Phoenix Press, London):
Rudolf Höß wrote: […]I myself never knew the total number and I have nothing to help me make an estimate of it.
I can only remember the figure involved in the larger actions, which were repeated to me by Eichmann or his deputies.
From Upper Silesia and Polish territory under German rule … 250,000
Germany and Theresienstadt … 100,000
Holland … 95,000
Belgium … 20,000
France … 110,000
Greece … 65,000
Hungary … 400,000
Slovakia … 90,000
I can no longer remember the figures for the smaller actions, but they were insignificant in comparison with the numbers given above.
I regard a total of two and a half millions as far too high. Even Auschwitz had limits to its destructive possibilities.
Figures given by former prisoners are figments of the imagination and lack any foundation.
[…]
Höß was not speaking about arrivals here, but about people killed.
michael mills wrote: However, at Hoess's trial, the Polish prosecution claimed that 3 million persons had been exterminated at Auschwitz, and Hoess did not dispute that claim.
Actually the indictment read as follows:
The accused Rudolf Franz Ferdinand Hoess, a German subject, was charged with the following crimes :

(1) That from 1st September, 1939, till May, 1945, in the German Reich, and from 1st May, 1940, till September, 1944, on the occupied territory of the Polish State he was a member of the German National Socialist Workers’ Party (NSDAP), a criminal organization, which aimed at the subjugation of other nations through planning, organizing and perpetrating crimes against peace, war crimes and crimes against humanity, and also was a member of the SS, a further criminal organization ;

(2) That from 1st May, 1940, till the end of October, 1943, as Commandant of the Auschwitz concentration camp set up by him, and thereafter from December, 1943, till May, 1945, as Head of the D.I. Department of the S.S. Central Economic and Administrative Office, as well as in June, July and August, 1944, as commander of the SS garrison at Auschwitz, in execution of the Nazi system of persecution and extermination of nations in concentration and death camps organized for the purpose, he supervised the application of that system in the Auschwitz concentration camp against the Polish and Jewish civilian population and against other nationals of the .territories occupied by Germany, as well as to Soviet prisoners of war, and thereby acting either himself or through the subordinate camp personnel, he deliberately :

(i) deprived of life : (a) about 300,000 camp registered inmates, (b) about 4,000,000 people mainly Jews brought to the camp from different European countries to be killed upon their arrival, and therefore not included in the register of the camp inmates, (c) about 12,020 Soviet prisoners of war confined in the camp in violation of the Geneva Convention on the treatment of Prisoners of War ; all this by asphyxiation in gas-chambers, shooting, hanging, lethal injections of phenol or by medical experiments causing death, systematic starvation, by creating special conditions in the camp which were causing a high rate of mortality, by excessive work of the inmates, and by other methods;

(ii) ill-treated and tortured the inmates physically and morally by various means ;

p.12

(iii) supervised wholesale robbery of property, mostly jewels, clothes and other valuable articles taken from people on their arrival to the camp, and of gold teeth and fillings extracted from dead bodies of the victims.
Source of quote:

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/hoess.htm#JUDGMENT

And even though this brought him no advantage, Höß seems to have disputed the prosecution’s figures on the stand:
During the preliminary investigation conducted by a juge d’instruction and during the trial the accused, who was defended by two counsels appointed by the Tribunal, admitted in substance all the facts preferred against him in the Indictment. In particular, he admitted that he was a member of the NSDAP and the SS, and that in his capacity as commandant of the concentration camp at Auschwitz and later as chief of D.I. Department of the Central Economic and Administrative Office of the SS he carried out and supervised the extermination of many million Jews and other people. He also admitted that in the course of this action the victims were robbed of all their possessions and valuables.

The accused denied, however, that he personally committed any acts of ill-treatment or cruelty, and questioned the accuracy of the total number of victims killed in the camp, which according to him was much lower than that of about four million submitted in the Indictment. All his questions put forward to witnesses were directed to this end in view.[my emphasis] Neither he himself, nor his defence, introduced any evidence, or witnesses on his behalf and he entirely relied on those put forward by the Prosecution. His whole defence rested solely on the submission that he was only carrying out orders received from his superiors, and he recognized his entire responsibility for everything that occurred in the camp whether he personally knew it at the time or not.
Source of quote:

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/hoess.htm#JUDGMENT
michael mills wrote: Hoess's own figure, based on his computation of totals from the various countris, is itself exaggerated to some extent. When that exaggeration is removed, we get a total of around 900,000 Jews arriving at Auschwitz, close to half from Hungary in 1944. That is the figure that Reitlinger arrived at in 1953.
Some of Höß' partial figures (namely that for France) may be above the mark, but his total figure tallies with the one established by Polish historian Franciszek Piper, in a study that started in 1980 and the results of which were presented in 1991 and 1994. A breakdown of Piper’s figures:

Nationality; Gassed on Arrival; Total Registered; Thereof Died; Thereof Survived; Total Deaths

Jews; 890,000; 205,000; 95,000; 110,000; 985,000

Poles; 10,000; 137,000; 64,000; 73,000; 74,000

Romany; 2,000; 21,000; 19,000; 2,000; 21,000

Soviet POWs 3,000; 12,000; 12,000; ---; 15,000

Others; ---; 25,000; 12,000; 13,000; 13,000

Total; 905,000; 400,000; 202,000; 198,000; 1,208,000

Source: http://facultystaff.vwc.edu/~dgraf/holoc.txt

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Post by michael mills » 03 Jun 2003 07:41

The summary of the Hoess Trial linked by Roberto also states:
The Tribunal found the accused guilty of the alleged crimes and sentenced him to death. In addition, the Tribunal pronounced the loss of public and civic rights, and forfeiture of all property of the accused.

There are, however, some important differences between the Indictment and the Judgment, which should be noted. Apart from those which concern the findings of the Tribunal in regard to the accused’s membership in the criminal organizations, and which will be described later, these differences are the following : - .

The Indictment charged the accused with " depriving of life ", while the Tribunal described the corresponding offences as " participation in the murder of . . . ". In the passage relating to the number of people exterminated in the Auschwitz camp, the Tribunal stated. that " an undetermined number of people, at least 2,500,000, mainly Jews " were murdered.
That indicates that the Tribunal did not fully endorse the four-million figure claimed by the prosecution in its indictment (which derives from the Soviet report), but reverted to the 2.5 million figure favoured by the Western Allies, and can be traced to the April 1944 Vrba/Wetzlar guesstimate, adjusted upward to take account of the Hungarian deportation (and perhaps the final deportations from Lodz and Slovakia).

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Post by michael mills » 03 Jun 2003 07:49

Roberto asked:
Did Hoess state the lower figure at any interrogation prior to the memoirs he wrote in Polish captivity?
I did not say that Hoess gave a lower total figure. I said that he gave figures for arrivals for individual countries that added up to a total of just over one million, considerably less than the 2.5-3.0 million figure that he gave whenever he was asked for an over all figure.

And yes, when he was being interrogated by United States agents in April 1946 (after he had been interrogated by the British) he did give separate figures for the individual countries that added up to one million or so. However, he did not dispute the 2.5 million overall figure, nor did his interrogators ask him to explain the discrepancy between that figure and the total obtained by adding his figures for individual countries (perhaps his interrogators did not bother to make that addition).

So far as I know, it was not until November 1946, in his report written for Judge Sehn, that Hoess explicitly disputed the 2.5 million figure and say that it was an exaggeration.

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Post by Roberto » 03 Jun 2003 11:15

michael mills wrote:The summary of the Hoess Trial linked by Roberto also states:
The Tribunal found the accused guilty of the alleged crimes and sentenced him to death. In addition, the Tribunal pronounced the loss of public and civic rights, and forfeiture of all property of the accused.

There are, however, some important differences between the Indictment and the Judgment, which should be noted. Apart from those which concern the findings of the Tribunal in regard to the accused’s membership in the criminal organizations, and which will be described later, these differences are the following : - .

The Indictment charged the accused with " depriving of life ", while the Tribunal described the corresponding offences as " participation in the murder of . . . ". In the passage relating to the number of people exterminated in the Auschwitz camp, the Tribunal stated. that " an undetermined number of people, at least 2,500,000, mainly Jews " were murdered.
That indicates that the Tribunal did not fully endorse the four-million figure claimed by the prosecution in its indictment (which derives from the Soviet report), but reverted to the 2.5 million figure favoured by the Western Allies, and can be traced to the April 1944 Vrba/Wetzlar guesstimate, adjusted upward to take account of the Hungarian deportation (and perhaps the final deportations from Lodz and Slovakia).
A compromise solution. What a shame they didn’ adopt the figure stated by Höß, which was "much lower" than that of the indictment and thus presumably the one he gave in Appendix I to his memoirs, as a prudent West German court applying the "in dubio pro reo" principle would have done. It would have deprived certain people of an issue to make a fuss about.

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Post by Roberto » 03 Jun 2003 11:22

michael mills wrote:Roberto asked:
Did Hoess state the lower figure at any interrogation prior to the memoirs he wrote in Polish captivity?
I did not say that Hoess gave a lower total figure. I said that he gave figures for arrivals for individual countries that added up to a total of just over one million, considerably less than the 2.5-3.0 million figure that he gave whenever he was asked for an over all figure.

And yes, when he was being interrogated by United States agents in April 1946 (after he had been interrogated by the British) he did give separate figures for the individual countries that added up to one million or so. However, he did not dispute the 2.5 million overall figure, nor did his interrogators ask him to explain the discrepancy between that figure and the total obtained by adding his figures for individual countries (perhaps his interrogators did not bother to make that addition).
See, that's why I requested being shown the interrogation protocol(s) containing those partial figures given by Höß. They might help to establish whether Höß pointed out that these partial figures were not complete or whether his interrogators’ failure to point out discrepancies can be taken as a sign of their incompetence or eagerness to maintain the more impressive higher figure, whatever this is supposed to matter.
michael mills wrote:So far as I know, it was not until November 1946, in his report written for Judge Sehn, that Hoess explicitly disputed the 2.5 million figure and say that it was an exaggeration.
Thanks for removing the source of possible misunderstanding.

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Post by Roberto » 03 Jun 2003 18:10

P.S.
Roberto wrote:A breakdown of Piper’s figures:

Nationality; Gassed on Arrival; Total Registered; Thereof Died; Thereof Survived; Total Deaths

Jews; 890,000; 205,000; 95,000; 110,000; 985,000

Poles; 10,000; 137,000; 64,000; 73,000; 74,000

Romany; 2,000; 21,000; 19,000; 2,000; 21,000

Soviet POWs 3,000; 12,000; 12,000; ---; 15,000

Others; ---; 25,000; 12,000; 13,000; 13,000

Total; 905,000; 400,000; 202,000; 198,000; 1,208,000

Source: http://facultystaff.vwc.edu/~dgraf/holoc.txt
On the RODOH forum under

http://pub86.ezboard.com/frodohforumfrm ... 41&stop=47

someone keenly pointed out that the arithmetic of the above chart is mistaken. The partial figures actually add up 1,107,000, not 1,208,000:

Nationality; Gassed on Arrival; Total Registered; Thereof Died; Thereof Survived; Total Deaths

Jews; 890.000; 205.000; 95.000; 110.000; 985.000

Poles; 10.000; 137.000; 64.000; 73.000; 74.000

Romany; 2.000; 21.000; 19.000; 2.000; 21.000

Soviet POWs ; 3.000; 12.000; 12.000; 0; 15.000

Others; 0; 25.000; 12.000; 13.000; 12.000

Total; 905.000; 400.000; 202.000; 198.000; 1.107.000

On the same forum, in his post of 6/3/03 7:18:13 am, our fellow poster Hans transcribed Piper’s breakdown of deportees to Auschwitz-Birkenau by group and country:
Number of Jews deported to Auschwitz:

Country Number
-------------------------------------

Hungary .................. 438,000
Poland ................... 300,000
France ................... 69,000
Netherlands .............. 60,000
Greece ................... 55,000
Bohemenia and Moravia
(Theresienstadt) ......... 46,000
Slovakia ................. 27,000
Belgium .................. 25,000
Germany and Austria ...... 23,000
Yugoslavia ............... 10,000
Italy .................... 7,500
Norway ................... 690
concentration camps
and other places ......... 34,000

Aproximate Total ......... 1,095,190 (1.1 million)


Number of non-Jews deported to Auschwitz:

Country/Ethnicity Number
-------------------------------------

Poland .................... 140,000 to 150,000
Gypsies ................... 23,000
USSR (POWs) ............... 15,000+
Other ..................... 25,000

Aproximate Total ......... 203,000+


Total number of people deported to Auschwitz: 1,300,000+


Source: Gutman, _Anatomy_, pp.68-70.

Posted by Mark Van Alstine in alt.revisionism
It seems that Piper's figures on the death toll of Auschwitz-Birkenau must be revised downward pursuant to recent research by German historians Christian Gerlach and Götz Aly, who have found documentary evidence showing that more than 100,000 of the Jewish deportees from Hungary were used as forced laborers, either inside the camp or at other places to which they were transferred. This evidence is discussed by Hans on the thread

http://pub86.ezboard.com/frodohforumfrm ... D=17.topic

of the RODOH forum.

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Post by stg 44 » 03 Jun 2003 18:43

How many jews did die in the holocaust then? Is 6 million an acurrate number, or an exageration?

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Post by Roberto » 03 Jun 2003 19:06

stg 44 wrote:How many jews did die in the holocaust then? Is 6 million an acurrate number, or an exageration?
It may even be a little too low. Have a look at this country-by-country breakdown:

http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/holocaust-victims.htm

For comparison with earlier, lower estimates by other historians, have a look at these sites:

http://holocaust-info.dk/statistics/hil ... ountry.htm

http://holocaust-info.dk/statistics/reit_stats.htm

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Post by michael mills » 04 Jun 2003 00:48

Roberto wrote:
It seems that Piper's figures on the death toll of Auschwitz-Birkenau must be revised downward pursuant to recent research by German historians Christian Gerlach and Götz Aly, who have found documentary evidence showing that more than 100,000 of the Jewish deportees from Hungary were used as forced laborers, either inside the camp or at other places to which they were transferred. This evidence is discussed by Hans on the thread
Have I not consistently put forward the view that at least 100,000 of the Jews deported from Hungary to Auschwitz in 1944 were used for labour?

And have not Roberto and Hans (and Charles Bunch) consistently reviled me for putting forward that view? Have they not previously argued that at least 400,000 Hungarian Jews wre killed at Auschwitz? Did they not always claim that the 100,000 Jews never arrived at the places of labour, because most of them had been killed at Auschwitz?

From Roberto's words as quoted above, one would never realise that he had previously abused those who made precisely the claim that Gerlach and Aly are now making.

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