k.u.k. casualties in Palestine

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
stevebecker
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k.u.k. casualties in Palestine

Post by stevebecker » 24 Aug 2018 23:29

Mates,

An Austrian mate sent me this on k.u.k. losses in Palestine. Do you known any names of these other men?
"The Austrian War Archive documents say for von Marno's 1/4 & 2/6:
1st Battle of Gaza: 1 officer and 4 soldiers KIA ; 2 officers and 7 soldiers wounded; 4 officers and 32 soldiers missing in action.

2nd Battle of Gaza: 1 soldier wounded; shot himself at the hospital with a Karabiner the day following day ( P.Jung page 101-
The k.u.k. Desert War; since 1981 late (2004) historian Dr. Peter Jung was working at the Austria War Archives and was the first Austrian to publish with Osprey Publishing Men-at-Arms 392 & 397 Oxford, 2003 )
3rd Battle of Gaza: 1 soldier KIA, 5 soldiers wounded (historian Dr. Robert Tarek-Fischer; employed at the Austrian chancellery ; page 134 Austria-Hungary's struggle for the Holy Land )
Peter Jung quotes a list compiled on the 1st of November 1918 at Konstantinopel that shows the dramatic losses caused by the retreat ( september 1918 onwards )
a) battery 1, Mountain Gun Detachment Turkey ( this unit arrived very late at the theatre ) 125 men
b) battery 1 Field Howitzer Detachment Turkey ( the former 1/4 of von Marno ) 4 Gagisten, 185 soldiers , 4 field howitzers
c) battery 2 Field Howitzer Detachment Turkey ( the former 2/6 of von Marno ) 126 soldiers, 5 field howitzers
d) 10cm Gun Battery Turkey, 3 Gagisten (= profess. soldiers), 82 soldiers, 3 guns
e) 24 cm Mortar Battery Turkey Nr. 9, 3 gagisten, 11 soldiers
total: 10 Gagisten, 529 enlisted men and 12 guns

2nd Attack on Suez Channel: no losses mentioned

What I have so far are these men killed at 1st Gaza:
Bene Kyrilla Gnr 2/6th Mountain Bty k.u.k. Artillery k.u.k. KIA 26-3-17 at 1st Gaza
Lázár János Gnr 2/6th Mountain Bty k.u.k. Artillery k.u.k. KIA 26-3-17 at 1st Gaza
Nagy Mihály Sgt 2/6th Mountain Bty k.u.k. Artillery k.u.k. KIA 26-3-17 at 1st Gaza
Truszkowski Wladislaw Ritter von Capt OC 2/6th Mountain Bty k.u.k. Artillery to T/CO Gebirgshaubitzdivision v. Marno 3-17 k.u.k. replaced von Marno 3-17 KIA 26-3-17 at 1st Gaza

But only one of the 9 men shown wounded:
Gonda Lajos Feldw 2/6th Mountain Bty k.u.k. Artillery k.u.k. WIA 26-3-17 at 1st Gaza shown DoW date? died of wounds

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Re: k.u.k. casualties in Palestine

Post by Tosun Saral » 30 Aug 2018 14:13

2Lt Premen C of Batt No:2/6 during Gaza.
Artillerist 1st Class Jonas Petruschka died on 2.3.1917 ( Hungarian or Czek), Hungatian artillerist Michael Kertesz died on 8.3.1917 deaths coused because of various couses.

They are both hungarians:
Bene Kyrilla Gnr 2/6th Mountain Bty k.u.k. Artillery k.u.k. KIA 26-3-17 at 1st Gaza
Lázár János Gnr 2/6th Mountain Bty k.u.k. Artillery k.u.k. KIA 26-3-17 at 1st Gaza
Nagy Mihály Sgt 2/6th Mountain Bty k.u.k. Artillery k.u.k. KIA 26-3-17 at 1st Gaza

Tosun Saral
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Re: k.u.k. casualties in Palestine

Post by Tosun Saral » 30 Aug 2018 14:29

Unfortunately the names of Kuk personel killed in Palastine are unknown. Late Dr.Jung searched all the names for nothing. I also searched in turkish archives for noting. I contacted my friend Dr. Norbert Schwake the keeper of german war cemetary at Jerusalem was not able to give more names. It is known that 600 Kuk soldiers lost their lives during the great defeet of turks in palestina.
- a corparal Nissim Behmoiras a Turkish Jew whoes familly imigrated to hungary died according to wounds in July 1916. He new flissed turkish

Tosun Saral
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Re: k.u.k. casualties in Palestine

Post by Tosun Saral » 30 Aug 2018 14:48

artillerist Zapletal Desider wounded
artlllerist Lázár Johann of 2/6
Sergeant Bone Alexander and artillerist Farkas Karl wounded on Corkhill Mantartepe Cebel el Muntar
artillerist Nake Anton heavy wounded, artillerist Eri Lup light wounded,
Lt Dusil wounded by head, artillerist Johann Styava wounded by leg
2nd Lt Pardy wounded by head
Walter Adam gives the list of losses as 7 officers and 43 men duing 26 ve 27 Mart 1917 of hich a bosniac christian Michael Radulowic (or Radulovics) who knew turkish wasalso killed.

Thats all that I know :)

stevebecker
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Re: k.u.k. casualties in Palestine

Post by stevebecker » 30 Aug 2018 23:09

Tosun,

Thank you my friend.

Yes I was given 500 + losses for the KUK in Palestine but I just don't see that many deaths by the above lists?

I wondered if he included PoW's in that list. As the major battles they lost few men, so possibly all those losses were during the two major retreats during the war in Nov-Dec 1917 and Sept-Oct 1918.

But how did they loss 500 + men during these retreats?

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Re: k.u.k. casualties in Palestine

Post by Tosun Saral » 01 Sep 2018 10:35

After Thousands of difficulties some of the Austro-Hungarian formations reached to Istanbul . On October 27, 1918 667 soldiers, 8- canone, 70 horses, 14 cars, 250 tons of war material, 160 tons of ammunition and two officers and eighty three Polish of the former Russian Caucasus Army who also sought refuge in Turkey loaded onto ferry Stella and left Turkey.

SS Stella took 30 officers and 200 men in her second sail.

According to the newspapers Grazer Tagblatt, 29.12.1918 s.12 the were still 180 officers and 1800 men in Turkey on Nov. 30th 1918. on the other hand Innsbrucker Nachrichten, 27.1.1919, s. 8 “Oesterreichische Kriegsgefangene in Anatolien” gives the number of officers in istanbul as 230.

On Jan 5th 1919

General Pomiankowski nd 200 officers, 1.050 men, 200 civilians including women and children were loaded onto turkish SS Reşit (Reshid) Paşa and left turkey. Tey reached t Vienna safetely under British and Italion guide. Neues Wiener Tagblatt (Tages-Ausgabe), 22.1.1919, s.6 Heimkehr der österreicher und Ungern aus der Türkei writes that 145 officers and 900 men of austian origin arrived to Vienna. The others went to their countries.

Turkish authoriries bagged the occupation forces to accept the Austro hungarians not as POW. For that reason they were hosted in 3 differnt places in İstanbul .while 12000 germans were POw under dracht wire.

Some of the voyagers of reşit Paşa
: Albay v. Zambaur ve ailesi, Albay von Nosek, Yarbay v. Hervay, Yarbay Ritter v. Niestolowsy, Kurmay Yarbay Ernst Megay, Binbaşı Samanek ve Yüzbaşı Walter Adam, Binbaşı Mähern, Mühendis Yüzbaşı Erich Heller, Önyüzbaşı Meclis üyesi Max Hampl, Dağcılık uzmanı Yüzbaşı Rudolf Veith, Orman Mühendisi Yüzbaşı
Eduard Löw, Topçu Kurmay Yüzbaşılar Friedrich ve Neeb, Mühendis Yüzbaşı Leo Linder, Demiryol subayı Önyüzbaşı Dr. Edgar Tolh, Önyüzbaşı Dr. Adalbert Lederer, Yüzbaşı Karl Schrecker. Üstağmen Prens Schwarzenberg, Üsteğmen Dr. Jug, Walter Stoß ve ailesi, Dr. Laura Stoß ve ailesi, Teğmen Friedrich v. Heller ve ailesi, İnşaat Mühensisi Teğmen Artur Born. “

stevebecker
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Re: k.u.k. casualties in Palestine

Post by stevebecker » 03 Sep 2018 22:57

Tosun,

Jung shows these details on the 2nd Gaza Battle

"The 18th of April 1917 saw an emplacement change of battery 1/4 ordered by Col. Edib Bey from the right sector to the left: 1/4 was positioned 0,6 miles north of Nebi Montar

( = Ali Muntar ). Divisional and batteyr command post ( Captain Rudolf Schaffer ) was sited on a ridge 1,25 miles north to Nebi Montar . 1/4 had to cover a 2,5 mile wide gap

between Group Gaza and the 53. Division. Battery 2/6 had to fight infantry attacking from south to southwest against Ali Muntar. At 11 o'clock a.m. battery 1/4 fired at a tank

causing the tank to retreat.

Ammo consume: 131 shells and 121 shrapnels for both batteries

The 19th of April 1917 saw the resumed attack of the EEF.

British columns and cluster-lines (Schwarmlinien) , some led by a tank attacked the left sector of Group Gaza and Ali Muntar hoping to breach the gap between Group Gaza and

Turkish 53rd Division. 1/4 together wit a Turkish field gun battery stopped this advance.

At 10 o'clock a.m. battery 2/6 fired at a from the southern slope of Ali Muntar advancing tank and achieved a direct hit that disabled this tank. In the afternoon it burts into flames.

There was a dune that saw heavy fighting . The EEF tried to advance from this dune. A tank was part of this advance. The Advance was stopped by 2/6 and a 10cm field gun battery.

This must have been the battery equipped with German field guns that had to be manned by 1/4 since its Turkish crews failed completely during battle , as the report tells."

My question is who is "Edib Bey"

Clearly not a KUK officer so was he an Ottoman officer ?

I could not find the Artillery commander for the 4th Army other then possibly the German LtCol Nicolai but not what dates. The 20th Corps commander is not known, while the 22nd Corps Arty commander is known as LtCol Ahmet Sabri (Ercetin) , but not what dates he commanded.

Do you know who Col Edib Bey is and what did he command?

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Re: k.u.k. casualties in Palestine

Post by Tosun Saral » 04 Sep 2018 18:24


Tosun Saral
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Re: k.u.k. casualties in Palestine

Post by Tosun Saral » 04 Sep 2018 18:27

Dear Steve Can you please give me the axact date when the Britih used brodie
steel helmets in Palestine?

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