Rapings commited by the soviet Soldiers

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Gen. Erwin Rommel
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Rapings commited by the soviet Soldiers

Post by Gen. Erwin Rommel » 02 Jun 2003 16:00

I'm reading one book called "The fall of Berlin" writed by Antony Beevor, and in the book they say that the russians soldiers raped all the womans they could, some womans were raped by 10 pr 12 russians in a single day, the raped every woman they say some were 12 others 80 years old and one russian vet (ex leader of "Komsomol" I dont know waht this is) once said that 2 million of Russia childs were born in Germany. i know this is speculation the number is too big, but there is any information about this?

Number of German womans raped by Russians?
Number of Childs born because of the rapings?

And there is any information about German rapers in Russia? or American and British Rapers aswell?

Thanks

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Simon
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Post by Simon » 02 Jun 2003 16:07

I add a question..

Number of suicides because of the rapings?

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witness
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Post by witness » 02 Jun 2003 16:42

"Komsomol" in Russian stands for "Kommunistitcheskyi souz molodezhy "
( In English verbatim -"The Communist unit of youth ")
Number of German womans raped by Russians?
AFAIK- not known (therefore can be grossly exaggerated.) The nature of this crime ( rape ) requires a physician verification. I doubt there were many such verifications during the fall of Berlin period .
No doubt the rapes did take place . But how many will probably always remain in the realm of extrapolations.
The same is quite relevant to the number of the children born and the suicide rate subsequent to the rapes.
Regards

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Gen. Erwin Rommel
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Post by Gen. Erwin Rommel » 03 Jun 2003 12:59

I'm not asking the exact numbers, only aprox. number if possible

thanks

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Johnny
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Post by Johnny » 03 Jun 2003 20:43

According to a study made by Gerhard Reichling in the 90's there were about 1,9 million German women who got raped by the red army in 1944-45. 1.4 out of these rapes being comitted inside the German state line of the time. But that's not the number of rapes only the number of victims. Note that there was only about 4 million Russian soldiers in the area during this period.

The number of children that were concieved by these warcrimes are a bit harder to attain I'd imagine. But I'd have a hard time imagining that the number of rapes on German women by Russians would be below 4 million.


My source for this information is the swedish book "Stalins Hämnd" (Stalins revenge) by Niclas Sennerteg (page 153)

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witness
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Post by witness » 03 Jun 2003 21:40

mistake
Last edited by witness on 03 Jun 2003 21:47, edited 1 time in total.

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witness
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Post by witness » 03 Jun 2003 21:47

Johnny wrote:But I'd have a hard time imagining that the number of rapes on German women by Russians would be below 4 million.
Can I ask you - why ?
Only because "there was only about 4 million Russian soldiers in the area " ?
Regards
P.S. Also I would be very intersted to find out how this number of 1,9 million was obtained by Gerhard Reichling . What does he say about it ?[/

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Post by Johnny » 03 Jun 2003 21:54

i really can't say since Sennerteg only uses him as a reference. I would assume the number to be around 4 million since women being raped several times by the same or diffrent soldiers was not uncommon according to Sennerteg.

Does that answer your question?

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witness
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Post by witness » 03 Jun 2003 22:08

Thank you -more or less.It would be really interesting to find out how
Gerhard Reichling arrived to this number.

You see my father ended the war in Berlin and according to what he was saying -" mischiefs " ( he used the Russian word - "svinstvo "-a
derivative from the word "svinya" in Russian "pig " probably implying various crimes -rapes including )were happening mainly when the "rear" troops ( not combat fighting the enemy troops) were entering the German towns and cities.
For me it is very hard to believe that almost every Russian soldier participated in those disgusting crimes, or that the number of rapes was really that significant . I read Antony Beaver's " Fall of Berlin" where he describes the rapes etc but he doesn't indicate any statistics either.
Regards

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Gen. Erwin Rommel
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Post by Gen. Erwin Rommel » 04 Jun 2003 00:23

witness wrote:I read Antony Beaver's " Fall of Berlin" where he describes the rapes etc but he doesn't indicate any statistics either.
Regards
I'm reading that book in this moment too, and i heard there about the rapings, they speak about it in chapter 3 if i'm not mistaken.

1,9 Million of Raped womans is a lot, it would be interesting to know about the number of suicides in the raped womans, and the number of childs born. But with 1,9 Millions of raped womans the number should be very high.

And there is any report about what the womans did with the childs? They killed them? they gave them to other people or what?

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Post by Benoit Douville » 04 Jun 2003 00:58

That's a very good book that you read, it's a great piece of work. It is amazing when you think about it that about 2 Millions women were raped when the Red Army invaded Germany but not only German women, but Russian and Polish women too from 12 to 72 years old!

Regards

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Post by Johnny » 04 Jun 2003 14:19

Yeah the book also tries to explain the suffering that the russians had endured in their motherland and that this revenge was fueled by party propaganda. ofcourse almost 2 million victims and God knows how many eastern european women to add to that number is an insane amount!
There is also a story in the book about Stalin himself pardoning a russian rapist.

ofcourse the war in the east was a grousume one, from both sides. So perhaps it's not all that surprising. The actual eyewitness accounts are the most striking tough... it makes you both sad and angry hearing about children having to witness the rapes of their sisters, mothers, grandmothers and so on. Unimaginable.. perhaps even worse than death.

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Post by Einsamer_Wolf » 04 Jun 2003 14:41

Johnny wrote:Yeah the book also tries to explain the suffering that the russians had endured in their motherland and that this revenge was fueled by party propaganda. ofcourse almost 2 million victims and God knows how many eastern european women to add to that number is an insane amount!
There is also a story in the book about Stalin himself pardoning a russian rapist.

ofcourse the war in the east was a grousume one, from both sides. So perhaps it's not all that surprising. The actual eyewitness accounts are the most striking tough... it makes you both sad and angry hearing about children having to witness the rapes of their sisters, mothers, grandmothers and so on. Unimaginable.. perhaps even worse than death.
Reprisals against innocent German civilians was systematic and deliberate. Atrocities against Russian people were sporadic, with the unpleasant caveat of the Einsatzgruppen that targeted specific ethinci or religious groups. In this way, the barbarianism of the Soveits was wider reaching and affected many more innocent peoples. The Germans were clearly the lesser of two evils.

Einsamer Wolf

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Post by Maple 01 » 04 Jun 2003 14:49

The Germans were clearly the lesser of two evils.
:lol:

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Post by Roberto » 04 Jun 2003 15:13

Einsamer_Wolf wrote:Reprisals against innocent German civilians was systematic and deliberate. Atrocities against Russian people were sporadic, with the unpleasant caveat of the Einsatzgruppen that targeted specific ethinci or religious groups. In this way, the barbarianism of the Soveits was wider reaching and affected many more innocent peoples. The Germans were clearly the lesser of two evils.

Einsamer Wolf
Now we have a little problem, my dear Wolf.

I can tolerate opinions differing from mine, but not plain and simple untruths like you just uttered.

Do you have any evidentiary support as to the "systematic and deliberate" nature of Soviet atrocities against German civilians?

No, you haven't, because there is none.

All evidence indicates that, while the brutal conditions under which especially Soviet infantry soldiers had to fight and the hate propaganda used to drive them on favored the commission of atrocities once the Red Army reached German soil, the atrocities that happened resulted from the initiative of individual soldiers their commanders had lost control of. A detailed analysis of the reasons for the Red Army's crimes of rape and murder you may find on the thread

Red Army Killing and Rape Crimes on German Soil
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopi ... e2970279ec

Now to the "sporadic" nature of German atrocities against the civilian population of the Soviet Union.

I'm glad you had enough sense to exempt the organized and systematic butchery of the Einsatzgruppen and their auxiliary formations from your statement, otherwise I would have to make you familiar with the Operational Situation Reports USSR of these killer squads and other documentary evidence to their acting under a pre-conceived plan and under orders of their superiors at the RSHA in Berlin.

But what about German atrocities in the course of so-called "anti-partisan" operations on Soviet territory?

I suggest you read the excerpts from Christian Gerlach’s Kalkulierte Morde I translated on the thread

Major Anti-Partisan Operations in Belorussia
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopi ... e2970279ec

and then tell me if you found anything in there suggesting that German atrocities against the civilian population, especially in Belorussia, were "sporadic" rather than organized and systematic killing sprees.

As to the German occupiers’ starvation policy against the population of the Soviet Union, I suggest you have a look at the documentary evidence I showed – not for the first time – in my post of Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:42 am on the thread

Nazi War Crimes and Soviet Partisans 1942
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopi ... 44&start=0

Please be careful with such proclivity in the future. This is supposed to be a historical forum.

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