Bataillon commanders of SS-Schützen-Bataillon 6

[Pena V]

ok, next one:
...These are my names for the "Schützenbtl. 6/ PzG.Btl. 506"

Benner, Richard 5.42
Zechmeister, Fritz 6.42
Küchle, Hans i.V. 6.42
Bauer, Hans i.V. 7.7.44-12.7.44
Degen, Günther i.V. 12.7.44
Ernst Rädeke 8.44
Renz, Gottlieb 8.44
Gläsmer, Konrad i.V.3.9.44-17.9.44
Gläsmer, Konrad 2.1.45-23.2.45
Braun, Adolf 2.45
v.Zydowitz, Karl 3.-16.3.45
Bauer, Hans i.V.3.45
Ottmann, Werner 26.3.45-8.5.45
Gruß Charly

Charly already started this subject. Here is what I have:
18 May 1942 - Apr 1944...SS-Hauptsturmführer Benner Richard (SS-Sturmbannführer 21 Jun 1942)
?? ??? 1944 - ?? ??? 1944...SS-Hauptsturmführer Renz Gottlieb
Aug 1944 - 03 Sep 1944...SS-Sturmbannführer Rädeke Ernst
03 Sep 1944 - 17 Sep 1944...SS-Obersturmführer Gläsmer Konrad
17 Sep 1944 - Nov 1944...SS-Hauptsturmführer Renz Gottlieb
02 Jan 1945 - 23 Feb 1945...SS-Hauptsturmführer Gläsmer Konrad
Feb 1945 - Mar 1945...SS-Sturmbannführer Braun Adolf
Mar 1945 - 16 Mar 1945...SS-Hauptsturmführer Zydowitz Karl (KIA)
25 Mar 1945 - 08 May 1945...SS-Hauptsturmführer Ottmann Werner

Pena V

[FransN]

First of all, a happy and healthy 2019 to all forum members. May the cooperation be fruitful and respectful again!

This what I have on the SS-Schtz. Btl. 6/SS-Pz. Gren. Btl. 506:

SS-Schützen-Bataillon "Nord" (FPNr. 25081), as such: 15.06.1942 - 22.10.1943
SS-Schutzen-Bataillon 6 (FPNr. 25081), as such: 22.10.1943 - 00.01.1944
SS-Schützen-Bataillon 6 (FPNr. changed to 46758), as such: 00.01.1944 - 00.12.1944
SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Bataillon 506 (FPNr. 46758), as such: 00.12.1944 - 00.05.1945
Benner, Richard (* 05.11.1911) Stubaf. 15.06.1942 - 00.00.1942
Zechmeister, Fritz (* 20.01.1908) iV. 00.06.1942
Küchle, Hans (* 06.07.1911) Stubaf. iV. und iP. (er war auch Ib/Div. Stab) 00.00.1942 - 23.09.1942
Schmid, Herbert (* 11.04.1914) Hstuf. iV. 23.09.1942 - 00.00.1942
Benner, Richard (* 05.11.1911) 01.12.1942 - 13.06.1944
Renz, Gottlieb (* 12.09.1911) Hstuf. 13.06.1944 - 07.07.1944 (verw.)
Bauer, Hans (* 12.03.1919) Ostuf. iV. 07.07.1944 - 12.07.1944
Degen, Günther (* 30.08.1917) Hstuf. 12.07.1944 - 03.09.1944
Gläsmer, Konrad (* 26.02.1919) Hstuf. iV. 03.09.1944 - 17.09.1944
Renz, Gottlieb (* 12.09.1911) Hstuf. 17.09.1944 - autumn 1944
Gläsmer, Konrad (* 26.02.1919) Hstuf. iV. autumn 1944 - 23.02.1945
Braun, Adolf (* 25.06.1913) Stubaf. 23.02.1945 - 00.03.1945
von Zydowitz, Karl (* 18.03.1917) Hstuf. 00.03.1945 - 16.03.1945 (MIA)
Bauer, Hans (* 12.03.1919) Ostuf. 16.03.1945 - 25.03.1945
Ottmann, Werner (* 15.01.1919) Hstuf. 25.03.1945 - 00.05.1945

Some remarks:
- The change in command between Küchle and Schmid has been noted in the KTB Nord, see BA-MA Freiburg RS 3-6/14:
"23.09.1942: Stubaf. Küchle, bisher Kdr. Schtz. Btl., nach Übergabe der Geschäfte Ib an Hstuf. Stolley, sofort zur Einarbeitung in Gudrunstellung. Schtz. Btl. übernimmt Hstuf. Schmid."
- Richard Benner is mentioned as the first CO of SS-Schijäger-Btl. "Norge" until 08.04.1944 (!!!!) by
Geir Brenden & Arne Hakon Thomassen: SS-Schijäger-Bataillon "Norge", Leandoer & Ekholm Publishing, Stockholm, 2011.
Geir Brenden & Tommy Natedal: Norwegian volunteers of the Waffen-SS, Helion & Company, Solihull, 2016.
This conflicts clearly with his alleged command of the Schtz. Btl. Does anybody have an explanation?

Best regards,
Frans

[Pena V]

Frans,

It's me again. A couple of comments:
Benner Richard He became the first commander of SS-Schützen-Bataillon "Nord" when I/SS-Infanterie-Regiment 7 was renamed in late May 1942. I have found a date of 18 May which might not be correct but it's May anyway.
Kühle Hans and Schmid Herbert are new to me in this position and well documented.
Renz Gottlieb has exact dates now!
Degen Günther There is something wrong now. We just went through GJR 11 and he was the CO of I Bataillon from 08 Jul 1944 to Nov 1944.
Rädeke Ernst is missing from your list.
Gläsmer Konrad took his second command 02 Jan 1945
Bauer Hans is new to me.
Thank you for the new information!

Pena

[charli peng]

Moin Moin,
I wish all a "Happy New Year"!!!

Adjutanten, SS-Schtz.Btl. 6:
Gläsmer, Konrad 01.07.42 - 30.06.43
Derflinger, Karl 03.1943
Goldgruber, Alois 07.1944
Schurr, Werner 10.1944
Derflinger, Karl 11.1944
SS-Ustuf. ? Lange 1945

These are my names.
Gruß Charly

[FransN]

# Charly:
Thanks for the IIa names! Goldgruber and Schurr I had already. What are your sources for Derflinger (2x) and Lange?
Where does the starting date for Gläsmer come from. I don't see it from an earlier post (no. 23) with the military career of Gläsmer (in the thread about Bataillon Kommandeure of GJR. 11, see
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=238708&start=15

# Pena:

Before I react on the names in more detail, I shall first list the sources I used. I shall refer to the numbers in front of each source in future posts:

(1) John P. Moore: "Führerliste der Waffen-SS", J.P. Moore Publishing, Portland, 2002.
(2) Dienstalterlliste (DAL) of 1 October 1943
(3) DAL of 1 July 1944
(4) DAL of 1 October 1944
(5) DAL of 9 November 1944
(6) Public Record Office, London, Roll TS26-903
(7) Die Deutsche Dienststelle (WASt). Crude ToO with COs (French language) made by the French Army immediately after the war.
(8) Franz Schreiber: "Kampf unter dem Nordlicht", Munin Verlag, Osnabrück, 1969.
(9) Wolf T. Zoepf: "Seven days in January", The Aberjona Press, Bedford, 2001.
(10) Rolf Michaelis: "Die Gebirgs-Divisionen der Waffen-SS", Michaelis Verlag, Erlangen, 1994.
(11) Charles Trang: "Dictionnaire de la Waffen-SS, volume 1, Éditions Heimdal, Bayeux, 2011.
(12) Kurt Mehner: "Die Waffen-SS und Polizei 1939-1945, Führung und Truppe", Militär Verlag Klaus D. Petzwall, Norderstedt, 1995.
(13) Axis History Forum (AHF), esp. the Phil Nix SS & Polizei section.
(14) Wolfgang Vopersal archive (Nachlass), Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv (BA-MA) Freiburg, files N756/147a, 147b, 148a, 148b.
(15) BA-MA files RS 3-6/1, /14, /20, /21, /26b.
(16) Stephen M. Rusiecki: In final defence of the Reich: The destruction of the 6th SS mountain division", Naval Institute Press, Annapolis, 2010.
(17) Mark C. Yerger: "Waffen-SS commanders" (volumes "Augsberger to Kreutz" and "Krüger to Zimmermann"), Schiffer Military History, Atglen, 1997 and 1999.
(18) Veit Scherzer: "Himmlers military elite. Die höchst dekorierten Angehörigen der Waffen-SS, Band 1 Adam-Kauth", Verlag Veit Scherzer, Bayreuth, 2014.
(19) Geir Brenden & Tommy Natedal: "Norwegian volunteers of the Waffen-SS", Helion & Company, Solihull, 2016.
(20) Geir Brenden & Arne Håkon Thomassen: SS-Schijäger Bataillon "Norge". Norwegian ski infantry on the East front 1941-44", Leandoer & Ekholm Publishing, Stockholm, 2011.
(21) Mark C Yerger: German cross in silver".
(22) Mark C Yerger & Ignacio Arrondo: "Totenkopf. The structure, development and personalities of the 3. SS-Panzer-Division", volumes 1 and 2, Helion & Company, Solihull, 2015 and 2016.
(23) Mark C. Yerger: "German cross in gold: Holders of the SS and Police". Volumes 1-8, R. James Bender Publishing, San Jose, 2003-2015.
(24) Georg Tessin, Norbert Kannapin & Brün Meyer:Waffen-SS und Ordnungspolizei im Kriegseinsatz 1939-1945. Ein Überblick anhand der Feldpostübersicht", Biblio Verlag, Osnabrück 2000.

Pena, I am aware that the commands of Degen and Renz are confusing, but I hope that I can convince you that the following reasoning is, in my opinion, the most logical and best educated guess with the sources at my disposal.
To make the discussion a bit more transparent/clear (I hope), I shall list, one after the other, the COs of I./SS-Geb.Jg.Rgt. 11 and SS-Schtz. Btl. 6 (after Dec. 1944 SS-Pz.Gren.Btl. 506). I only list the names for the period under debate, i.e. mid 1944 - 05.1945:

I./SS-Geb. Jg. Rgt. 11:
Hermann Brandt: until sometime in 1944
Günther Degen: mid 09.1944 - autumn 1944
Gottlieb Renz: autumn 1944 - 03.01.1945 (KIA)
Günther Degen: 03?.01.1945 - 13.03.1945 (KIA)
Alfred Steurich: 13.03.1945 - 03.04.1945

SS-Schtz. Btl. 6 => SS-Pz.Gren.Btl. 506:
Gottlieb Renz: 13.06.1944 - 07.07.1944 (wounded according to (8), page 270)
Hans Bauer iV: 07.07.1944 - 12.07.1944
Günther Degen: 12.07.1944 - 03.09.1944 (starting date according to (8), page 272)
Konrad Gläsmer iV.: 03.09.1944 - 17.09.1944 (starting date according Charly Peng's post, the command (iV) itself confirmed by (8), page 289)
Gottlieb Renz: 17.09.1944 - autumn 1944 (starting date according to (8), page 289, and Charly Peng's post)
Konrad Gläsmer: autumn 1944 - 23.02.1945 (end date according to Charly Peng's post)
Adolf Braun: 23.02.1945 - 00.03.1945
Karl von Zydowitz: 00.03.1945 - 16.03.1945 (MIA)
Hans Bauer: 16.03.1945 - 25.03.1945
Werner Ottmann: 25.03.1945 - 00.05.1945

I thought we came to the conclusion that Ernst Rädeke did not fit in this picture: When Berthold Maack left his Rgt. 11 in late August 1944, he was succeeded by Ernst Rädecke, who came from outside the division. So far I did not see any source that puts him as CO of the Schtz. Btl.

Günther Degen was cited by (8) as CO of I./SS-Rgt. 11 around the same time as the divisional Ia, Stubaf. Hans Küchle, was killed, i.e. on 18.09.1944. Why (did Degen get wounded?) and when exactly (sometime in the autumn) Renz moved from the Schtz. Btl. to I./Rgt. 11 is not known by me.

Do you have a source for the starting date of Richard Benner as the first CO of the SS-Schtz.Btl.? (May, June?)

Best regards,
Frans

[charli peng]

Moin Moin,
The starting dates are from Konrad Gläsmer himself. I had contact with him for a long time ago.
@Derflinger: I had seen his signatur in a "Soldbuch". I show a pic of it next time.
@ Lange: ...I had read the name in a "Nordruf". But I' m not sure!
....I research on a "Führer/ Unterführer- Stellenbesetzung" from the "Nord" since over 10 year's.
I'm intresting for the "Nord" since over 25 year's.
I had friendly contacts with a lot of veterans.
I have some problems with the english language, I'm so sorry, but my german is much better.
I am looking forward to a good cooperation!
Gruß Charly

[Pena V]

Frans,

I'm too busy again but I'll give an answer to your last question. Take a look at what Ignacio wrote on 27 Apr 2009 about I/7 changing it's name to SS-Schützen-Bataillon "Nord" under Benner's command in late May 1942.

Regards,

Pena

[FransN]

# Charly: Herzlichen Dank!
# Pena: Kiitos!
Thanks to you both! Looking forward to a continued cooperation
Frans

[Pena V]

Frans,

Finally I have some time.

I thought we came to the conclusion that Ernst Rädeke did not fit in this picture: When Berthold Maack left his Rgt. 11 in late August 1944, he was succeeded by Ernst Rädecke, who came from outside the division. So far I did not see any source that puts him as CO of the Schtz. Btl.

As you say Ernst Rädeke "came from outside the division". He left SS-Panzergrenadier-AuE-Bataillon 11 in the end of Jul 1944. This means that he could have been the CO of SS-Schützen-Bataillon 6 from Aug 1944 to 03 Sep 1944. In addition I'm aware of only 3 of his commands before he came to "Nord": one Kompanie (11./T.I.R. 3) and two Bataillons (Ersatz-Bataillon der Legionen and SS-Panzergrenadier-AuE-Bataillon 11) which were only training units. So to be named a Regiment commander straight away he would have been very unexperienced. Well, he was unexperienced anyway.
Another candidate is Gottlieb Renz. He was the old commander of SS-Schützen-Bataillon 6 until he was injured 07 Jul 1944. My source is what Charly wrote 14 Apr 2006 about how Gläsmer got his command: "3.9.44 - 17.9.44 Renz must go in to the lazarett."
How about Günther Degen? Everything fits - if only Renz and Rädeke weren't there!!! This is a puzzle which I cannot solve

Pena

[FransN]

Hei Pena,

I shall refer to the numbers of the sources which I listed in post 5 of this thread, above.

Here are the relevant passages in Schreiber (8) for this discussion:

Page 270: (the date is 7 July 1944) "Der Batl. Kdr., Hstuf. Renz, wird am Oberschenkel schwer verwundet."
Page 272: "Am 12. Juli bringen die Sturmboote neuen Ersatz. Hstuf. Degen übernimmt das Bataillon."
Page 289: "Am 17. September traf der Kommandeur des Schtz. Btl., Hstuf. Renz, dem inzwischen das Ritterkreuz verliehen worden war, vom Lazarett kommend bei seinen Batataillon ein, das zwischenzeitlich von Hstuf. Gläsner geführt worden war."
Page 296: (the date is 17 or 18 September 1944): "Frontal, mit einer Kompanie nördlich umfassend, setzte das Regiment dann unter Führung des Kommandeurs des I./11, Hstuf. Degen, mit ingesamt vier Kompanien zum Angriff an, wobei die Rückwärtigen Teile sofort die Flankenbereinigung des Flussufers übernahmen."......."Für persönliche Tapferkeit und umsichtige, mitreissende Führung erhielt Hstuf. Günther Degen, Kommandeure des I./11, nach diesen Kämpfen das Ritterkreuz."
Schreiber does not mention Ernst Rädeke either as CO of Schtz. Btl. 6 or of I./11, but only that he got killed in October as CO of Rgt. 11:
Page 309: "Der Kommandeur, Stubaf. Rädecke, erst wenige Wochen in Karelien......"

Yerger and Arrondo in "Totenkopf", part 2 (source 22), page 322, note 89, write the following about Ernst Rädeke:
"....In early May 1943 this unit was designated SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Ausbildungs- und Ersatz Bataillon 11 with Rädeke leading the training and replacement unit until early July 1944. He was then posted to the 6. SS-Gebirgs-Division "Nord" to command SS-Gebirgs-Jäger-Regiment 11 "Reinhard Heydrich". Rädeke was killed leading his unit near Tuchkalla, Finland, on October 28, 1944, and was posthumously awarded the Roll of Honor Clasp on January 1945".
Again, this source does not mention Rädeke as CO of either Schtz. Btl. 6 or I./Rgt. 11.
The fact that Rädeke left his training battalion in early July 1944 does not imply that he took over Rgt. 11 already then. He had to make a long journey from Graz, Austria, through a Germany exposed to continuous bombing, across the Baltic to Finland and then to the frontline in the middle of nowhere. Then Berthold Maack had to fill him in on the regimental command of Rgt. 11. My educated guess is that Rädeke took over Rgt. 11 from Maack somehere in August at the earliest.

Gottlieb Renz got severely wounded on 7 July and was out of action until his return on 17 September.

When I combine the above-mentioned data with the curriculum vitae of Konrad Gläsmer kindly provided by Charly Peng, see viewtopic.php?f=38&t=238708&start=15 , then I come to the list of COs for Schtz. Btl. in my post 2 of this thread.

Do you have any source that lists Rädeke as CO of either Schtz. Btl. 6 (or even I./11)?

Best regards,
Frans

[charli peng]

[Pena V]

I./SS-Geb. Jg. Rgt. 11:
Hermann Brandt: until sometime in 1944
Günther Degen: mid 09.1944 - autumn 1944
Gottlieb Renz: autumn 1944 - 03.01.1945 (KIA)
Günther Degen: 03?.01.1945 - 13.03.1945 (KIA)
Alfred Steurich: 13.03.1945 - 03.04.1945

Let's start with this and see where we have differencies.
Hermann Brandt: We agree.
Günther Degen: 08 Jul 1944 - Nov 1944 According to Schreiber Degen took command of the Bataillon 12 Jul 1944. I have 2 questions. Was the Bataillon I/11 and where did Degen come from by a Sturmboote? AFAIK Degen was serving in "Nord".
Gottlieb Renz Nov 1944 - 03 Jan 1945 (KIA) We do not disagree
Günther Degen We agree.
Alfred Steurich We agree.

Regards,

Pena

[FransN]

# Pena

Günther Degen was brought to the position of Schtz. Btl. 6 by Sturmboot across Lake Ssennosero on 12.07.1944 and took command of this battalion, replacing the severely wounded Gottlieb Renz. I do not know what Degen's command was before this. The only thing I know is that he commanded 6./SS-Geb. Jg. Rgt. 6 in 04.1943 (1). Charly's document changes our discussion about the position of Renz and Degen considerably....(see below).

# Charly

Thank you very, very much for posting this document actually showing that Gottlieb Renz died on 03.01.1945 as CO of SS-Pz. Gren. Btl. 506 (the successor of SS-Schtz. Btl. 6)!!! I always thought, based on Moore's Führerliste (which uses to be fairly reliable), that Renz dies on 03.01.1945 as CO of I./SS-Geb. Jg. Rgt. 11. The latter assumption troubled the discussion Pena and I had about the commands (Schtz. Btl. 6 or I./11) of Degen and Renz in the period of 07.1944 - 01.1945. Now, the puzzle pieces fit much better!!!

Therefore I make another attempt to list the commanders of SS-Schtz. Btl. 6 + SS-Pz. Gren. Btl. 506, as well as of I./SS-Geb. Jg. Rgt. 11, for the sake of completeness. Please let me know if you have a different opinion (if so, based on what sources?).

SS-Schtz. Btl. 6 + SS-Pz. Gren. Btl. 506:
Gottlieb Renz 13.06.1944 - 07.07.1944 (wounded)
Hans Bauer iV. 07.07.1944 - 12.07.1944
Günther Degen iV. 12.07.1944 - 03.09.1944
Konrad Gläsmer iV. 03.09.1944 - 17.09.1944
Gottlieb Renz 17.09.1944 - 02.01.1945 (dies one day later)
Konrad Gläsmer 02.01.1945 - 23.02.1945
Then Adolf Braun, Karl von Zydowitz, Hans Bauer and Werner Ottmann.

I./SS-Geb. Jg. Rgt. 11:
Hermann Brandt until sometime in 1944 (09.1944 ?)
Günther Degen mid 09.1944 - 13.03.1945 (killed)
Alfred Steurich 13.03.1945 - 03.04.1945

Charly, the quality of the shown document makes it difficult to decipher. Would you please post it again in a higher quality, if possible? The information on the list is highly interesting! Do you have more of such pages? What is the source? If it is from Freiburg, could you provide us with the file numbers please?
Once again: Herzlichen Dank!

One final question that puzzles Pena and I for a while: Do you have any source stating that Ernst Rädeke commanded either SS-Schtz. Btl. 6 or I./SS-Geb. Jg. Rgt. 11 for a short period in the Summer of 1944, before he became CO of Rgt. 11 (August ?)?

Best regards,
Frans

[Pena V]

I./SS-Geb. Jg. Rgt. 11:
Hermann Brandt until sometime in 1944 (09.1944 ?)
Günther Degen mid 09.1944 - 13.03.1945 (killed)
Alfred Steurich 13.03.1945 - 03.04.1945

Another try.
Hermann Brandt We agree.
Günther Degen According to Schreiber Degen was the CO in mid Sep but do we know that he didn't take the command earlier? If not I'd say (Sep 1944) in brackets just to be sure.
Alfred Steurich We agree.
We are slowly getting there!

Pena

[Pena V]

One more thing. Once upon a time there was an Unterscharführer called Behrens. He was serving with SS-Schützen-Bataillon "Nord" and SS-Schützen-Bataillon 6 at least on these dates: 01 Aug 1942 (under Benner), 21 Oct 1943 (under Benner), 27 Jul 1944, 20 Sep 1944, 03 Nov 1944 (under Renz) and 13 Nov 1944 (under Renz). Guess who signed his promotion certificate to Oberscharführer on 27 Aug 1944? Ernst Rädeke
See www.ratisbons.com/auctions-archive/8th- ... ry-auction


Pena