How do you see Waffen-SS veterans?

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Fallschirmjäger and the other Luftwaffe ground forces. Hosted by Christoph Awender.
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Yuri
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Re: How do you see Waffen-SS veterans?

#76

Post by Yuri » 21 Sep 2019, 15:45

Hindi Ivan commander of the 1st corps (Hungary).
500-12480-35 pp.70-78 (9 pages)
p.70
I_AK(hun) Hindi Ivan.jpg
The abdication of Regent Horthy
500-12480-80 pp.183-184 (2 pages)
HORTHY2.jpg

Peter89
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Re: How do you see Waffen-SS veterans?

#77

Post by Peter89 » 21 Sep 2019, 19:35

Yuri wrote:
21 Sep 2019, 15:35
Peter89 wrote:
21 Sep 2019, 11:39
I think you refer to Karl Pfeffer-Wildenbruch, but he was wounded and captured during the breakout attempt from Budapest.

My grandpa was conscripted into the 37th SS Cavarly Division, but I think its initial commander Waldemar Fegelein (a former commander in the 8th SS Cavarly Division) had little impact on what was going on. The main perpetrators were the Organisationsabteilung of the Kommandoamt der Waffen-SS, and the hungarist / nazi Szálasi regime.

I can understand Russian, so if you have a Russian source, that's fine for me.
Yes, Karl Pfeffer-Wildenbruch he was Chef of the Organisationsabteilung of the Kommandoamt der Waffen-SS in Hungary. Commander SS-IX Corps he was appointed when it began the battle for Budapest.
500-12480-35 pp.48-57 (10 pages)
http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/pages/165795/zooms/8
p.48
SS-IX Pfeffer-Wildenburch Karl.jpg
ObrstLt Lindenau Gustav - SS-IX Chief of staff.
500-12480-35 pp.58-69 (12 pages)
p.58
SS-IX Lindenau Gustaw.jpg
Wow that was new information for me Yuri. Thanks!
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."


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Georg_S
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Re: How do you see Waffen-SS veterans?

#78

Post by Georg_S » 23 Sep 2019, 20:21

Pascal. Kullmann. wrote:
17 Aug 2019, 14:03
Thank you all for these responses!! :) :)
Another question:
Did veterans shared any story with you that made you emotional?
:)

I havent seen this thread for a while, and answer your question yes many Times almost every time that included how they saw their best friend died or similiar. Or in some cases was treated after the war.

One case I remember Very well was H. Herold (1./SS-AA2) told me in some battles in Russia and when they during a attack His childhood friend who enlisted together with him came running beside him, as they approached the enemy His friend was in front of him and got decapitated by shrapnel or similiar.
The old veteran even 60 years after the war got Tears in His eyes talking about that, as well did I . I feelt Very sorry for him.

I also got Very emotionall when Walter Gerth (Rk Holder) talked about the war graves in Demjansk and especially how they today got digged Up for souvenirs , since then I have it Very difficult to see "battle finds" in My opinion Grave looters.
I miss many of them as I talked/ wrote a lot and considered Them as My Friends.

Best regards
Georg
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Carlus
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Re: How do you see Waffen-SS veterans?

#79

Post by Carlus » 08 Oct 2019, 15:53

That's a really problematic issue, especially for what concern memory and national history in countries like Baltic States, as far as I know in Latvia the old Waffen SS veterans are still glorified as heroes who only fought bolsheviks in the name of the Country's independence. I guess a similar speech could be made for Western Ukraine and Galicia.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: How do you see Waffen-SS veterans?

#80

Post by Sid Guttridge » 18 Oct 2019, 15:18

Hi Carlus,

Yes.

The various Eastern European nationalist units and formations of the W-SS were not interested in Nazi ideology, just in asserting their national identity against the Soviet Union. From 1943 the only avenue for this was through the Waffen-SS. Even then, most Latvians and Estonians had to be conscripted, because Germany was already clearly losing the war.

Cheers,

Sid.

Gewehr41
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Re: How do you see Waffen-SS veterans?

#81

Post by Gewehr41 » 24 Oct 2019, 12:23

Hello, are there still alive veterans from Stalingrad or Africa?

ManfredV
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Re: How do you see Waffen-SS veterans?

#82

Post by ManfredV » 24 Oct 2019, 14:02

Last year these two wehrmacht veterans were still alive:
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik ... --29562832
https://www.focus.de/wissen/mensch/gesc ... 09744.html
All men who fought in Stalingrad and in Africa are 94 and older today. And only 6000 men who fought in Stalingrad and were captured survived soviet prisoners camps. So there must be only a handful living Stalingrad veterans and some more from Africa.

Sami1938
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Re: How do you see Waffen-SS veterans?

#83

Post by Sami1938 » 17 Nov 2020, 16:26

Interesting and thought provoking thread, to be expected, given the subject matter of the question.

Like others who have posted on here, I too met many, many veterans - mostly WSS, as that is my sphere of interest. Why, cannot really answer that, other than to say my interest in WWII was there from a very young age (I never got into sports like my siblings and other friends). That was on the allied side, but then the question arose for me, 'what do the other side do during these battles that we know of?'.

I grew up in Northern Ireland (from 1969), so for the first half of my life, was subjected to a conflict that was constantly taking place. That conflict taught me the darkness of man's deeds for a 'cause', with many well catalogued horrendous deeds taking place there. As I went o secondary school and just after that, crossed paths with some of the perpetrators from both sides - unavoidable really; one turned out to be one of the most notorious hitmen. with multiple people becoming his victims. I knew just prior to the start of his killing spree, but his political and religious motivations were clear then (we came from 'opposite' sides, but shared a common interest in Mod music and scooters, etc.).

I moved to England to get away from that and ensure that I was not subjecting my young children to what we endured. That is where I met my first German veteran, a man from the WSS. in 1999 I got an invite to a reunion in Germany (through a 'gate-keeper', as highlighted in this thread) and that started many conversations with mostly WSS men.

I always had an interest in that period and to be able to talk to the history makers was one I jumped at. My interest was on the battles and frontline elements, so took opportunities to talk to veterans who allowed me to, focusing on their experiences, once I knew when they joined, etc.

The initial focus was for my first planned book and sought out any veterans from that unit. Alongside that, was the interest in the RKTs, so sought the out too, where possible. Moe visits to reunions and also private homes of veterans took place - all over Europe, as well as written correspondence. Always conscious of time and opportunity, I focused on the aspects that I was trying to research. I did not move off that 'path' and why should I? I have a defined area of focus and that is what I pursued.

Having been subjected to what I had been in N. Ireland, I did not approach any of the veterans with any illusions on their past. Equally, I did not pre-judge any of them. I dd not walk their shoes, in the times they did, so have no right to judge them (or anyone else either). I have an interest and these individuals helped me further my understanding of those times.

Not all of them were open to talking, some very abruptly refused. However, the times spent with those that would talk, was memorable and a great chance for any student of history to have, take and make the most of. I often think, for those interest in the Roman Empire, how they would jump at the chance to talk to a Legionnaire.

It is also easy to interpret my experiences, focus and subsequent conversations with these men as some sort of dough-eyed interaction. It was not! It was a transaction of information, zeroed in on specific needs, which differed by veteran. I did make some good friendships along the way, hard not to. The spectrum of people met covered everything from late-war conscripts to pre-war volunteers, alongside many early foreign volunteers. They all had their individual motivations for joining the WSS, which was their business and not for me to comment on, or judge.

Their deeds are well documented and anyone interested in that arm of service, during that time, should not approach the subject with any illusions. it was a long-lasting and intense war of ideologies with consequences for all involved. Let us hope that we never find ourselves there again! However, I am however, of the opinion that we have learned nothing and are destined to keep finding new reasons to kill our fellow human beings - sad, but reality. Hope this insight is useful nd helpful in partially answering the initial questions posed.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: How do you see Waffen-SS veterans?

#84

Post by Sid Guttridge » 17 Nov 2020, 19:17

Hi Sami38,

As a matter of interest, why did you choose to talk to W-SS veterans? After all, their combat experience was likely to be pretty much identical to that of their far more numerous Heer contemporaries in the same arms.

Cheers,

Sid.

Sami1938
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Re: How do you see Waffen-SS veterans?

#85

Post by Sami1938 » 20 Feb 2022, 15:47

HI Sid

Have just seen your reply, whilst searching for some information; apologies for the delay in replying.

I have no idea where the specific interest in the WSS originated, but it was a long time ago (more than 3 decades), whilst living in Northern Ireland and not having access to much 'decent' books, or any contact with veterans; that opportunity was not even in my mind back then.

It is one of those questions I ask myself, 'why do any of us focus on specific elements of conflict, a particular timeframe / war / 'side', then drill into more detailed elements of that'; not one I can answer. Often wonder, as I meet and talk with fellow history enthusiasts, why they focus on the Luftwaffe, KM, Heer formations, political elements, of the Napoleonic timeframe, WWI, or any other aspect of history.

Is is there is all of us, and clear that we continue to pursue our specific sphere of interest, but without knowing the reasons why, or where it will end........

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