Demjanuk on Netflix

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by Sergey Romanov » 14 Dec 2019 14:46

Münzberger, 01.04.1960, BArch 162/3831, p. 32v, "Der Hund konnte bissig werden, wenn man ihn gestichelt hat." Didn't see him biting the inmates. "Ich erinnere mich aber, daß darüber gesprochen wurde."

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by Sergey Romanov » 14 Dec 2019 14:51

Mentz, 19.07.1960, BArch 162/3822, p. 103, about Franz and Barry: "Ich habe selbst gesehen, daß er diesen Hund auf die arbeitenden Häftlinge gehetzt hat. Franz brüllte "Wollt ihr wohl arbeiten" und dann ging der Hund schon auf die Häftlinge los. Ich nehme an, daß er wohl entsprechend abgerichtet war. Der Hund hat den Häftlingen nach der Hose geschnappt. Inwieweit der Hund die Häftlinge gebissen hat, das kann ich nicht sagen, weil ich nicht nahe genug dabei war, wenn so etwas geschah".

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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by Sergey Romanov » 14 Dec 2019 14:57

Suchomel, 25.10.1960, BArch 162/3823, p. 166: Bari was a "feiges Mistvieh", "ich glaube aber, daß er auch bösartig werden konnte". Bit a Ukrainian named Boris in the butt. Heard, though not saw, about the dog biting inmates, the dog was badmouthed. "Die Häftlinge habe ihn gefürchtet und die Deutschen haben ihn nicht gewollt."

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by Sergey Romanov » 14 Dec 2019 15:02

Grossmann, 05.07.1961, BArch 162/3825, p. 149. "Der Hund war äußerst gefährlich, Franz hatte ihn immer an der Leine. Franz brauchte nur jemand anzugucken, dann wollte der Hund auf diesen los. Ich kann mich nicht erinnern, daß der Hund tatsächlich mal jemanden angegriffen hat."

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by Sergey Romanov » 14 Dec 2019 15:07

Matthes, 22.03.1962, BArch/3826, p. 139v: "Er hat auch öfter einen größen Hund, einen Bernhardiner Hund, bei sich gehabt. Diesen hat er auf die Häftlinge gehetzt. Das habe ich selbst gesehen. Manchmal hat Franz den Hund zurückgerufen, manchmal hat er auch zugelassen, daß der Hund die Häftlinge biss."

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by Sergey Romanov » 14 Dec 2019 15:52

From Schelvis' history of Sobibor:
The dogs at Sobibór were another source of terror for the Arbeitshäftlinge. There
were three in all, according to Bauer: Barry the Saint Bernard, Zeppel the German
Shepherd, and a black sheepdog that did not respond to any German commands. The
Polish women by the station were also terrified of Barry; being the size of a calf, he
could knock anyone down when he jumped up at them. It even happened to Bauer
once.30 Bolender was often accompanied by Barry.
As time went on, I began to see that the animal was rather aggressive. The dog did not
only chase after the horses, it even tried to attack me once. [. . .] Occasionally he also bit
the Jew who had to look after him, as well as another Jew who rushed past to report for
duty. In both cases the bites did not have severe consequences, because the Jew who was
supposed to look after him carried on brushing and combing him afterwards. [. . .] I did
find out once that the dog had allegedly bitten a Pole outside the camp.31
30. Bauer on 9 October 1974 in Berlin, StA.Do-WZ-III-1146.
31. Bolender on 5 June 1961 in Munich before the Landeskriminalamt, p. 17

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by Sergey Romanov » 14 Dec 2019 16:40

A couple more points. Not that I accept Mills' skills in determining dogs' age from photos, but Franz himself denied it was his album and claimed to have found it in the camp. Whatever degree of truth there is to this claim, not every photo was necessarily made by Franz himself.

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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by JaneMary » 30 Jan 2020 18:35

New photos appear to show Demjanjuk at Sobibor

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Poot
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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by Poot » 30 Jan 2020 22:05

Where were the photos posted?

Thanks,
Pat
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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by Sergey Romanov » 31 Jan 2020 12:04

WaPo and in many other places. I'm not sure it's Demjanjuk, his face is partially obscured by the hat. Hard to be certain beyond the reasonable doubt.

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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by Poot » 01 Feb 2020 00:54

Thank you Sergey. It resembles him, but without serious forensic photographic examination, we're just guessing. Even then, who's going to pay for it to be examined, and (now) to what end? I realize that's more of a rhetorical question!

Pat
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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by JaneMary » 02 Feb 2020 16:36

Hi Pat

The photos that look like Demjuanjuk have already has been examined in more than one country and it doesnt sound like they plan to stop examining them now until they a consensus is reached. There has been enormous public interest in this case and I doubt there'll be any shortage of interested parties willing to fund examination of the photographs now for the sake of historicity .

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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by Poot » 02 Feb 2020 21:25

Hi JaneMary,
Thanks for adding that. I find it interesting (if not a bit confusing) that this case still commands so much attention. I'm not doubting the importance of correct identification of criminals, but I didn't think it would keep public attention for such a long time. Just my own opinion, nothing more.

Pat
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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by JaneMary » 03 Feb 2020 11:40

The resurgence in interest in the case has been prompted by the Netflix series about it, which was incredibly engaging and very well done. Did you watch it? I'm in a other forum with the children of survivors who remain adamant Demjanuk was at Treblinka, based on what their parents told them. The series sparked debate there for weeks and some of the members have written books about the case. In Israel it is still spoken about by the public on a weekly basis, which even I was amazed to discover! I dont think the amount of worldwide interst can be overstated. It raised so many big issues about the Israeli and American legal systems, the value/accuracy of survivor testimony, identification procedures and more. I personally find it fascinating but I have for years well before some Israeli film makers revived the West's interest in it. I hope there will be a consensus reached where the majority of experts agree on the identity on the man who looks just lile Demjanjuk at Sobibor.

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Sergey Romanov
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Re: Demjanuk on Netflix

Post by Sergey Romanov » 03 Feb 2020 17:38

> hope there will be a consensus reached where the majority of experts agree on the identity on the man who looks just lile Demjanjuk at Sobibor.

Why? It's not important.

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