Strange Orbat?

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
stevebecker
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Joined: 01 Jul 2006 03:04
Location: Australia

Strange Orbat?

Post by stevebecker » 30 Jun 2020 00:35

Mates,

I noticed this Orbat shown in the the Nafziger folder at the U.S. Army Combined Arms Center.

Just to give you an Idea

Yeman Corps around June 1915

XV Corps: Yusuf Zia Pasha

Assir
21st Independent Division: (Nizam)
7 battalions of 121st & 122nd Infantry Regiments
3 mountian batteries
2 machine gun companies
1 train company
1 telegraph company

Hedjaz
22nd Independent Division: (Nizam)
128th Infantry Regiment (3 bns)
129th Infantry Regiment (3 bns)
130th Infantry Regiment (3 bns)

Corps Troops:
2 squadrons mounted on muels and camels
3-4 mountain batteries
2 fortress batteries
2 machine gun companies
1 train company
1 telegraph company

Mates as you can see this poses a number of questions?

Who is Yusuf Zia Pasha?

clearly the Yeman corps is not the 15th Corps. It was either the 7th Corps and or the Yeman Corps

Its commander is always shown as Ahmet Tevfik Pasha (Alpsoy)

His ref is shown as

Ordre de Bataille of the Turkish Army, Corrected to 16 August 1915,
1915, Cairo, British Government Press

I only have the 1916 Briitsh ORbat so how he came to his lists has me?

I should say it has many mistakes of Ottoman Officers names, while the lists are hard to check, many of the details can be crossed checked and are spot on or close to the what they had. If some differences mostly on spelling or units out of place.

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Strange Orbat?

Post by Tosun Saral » 05 Jul 2020 15:06

XV Corps was established at Gallipoli during Sept- December 1915 at the order of Anafartalar Grubu the Suvla Group as Kocaçimen Command. Anafartalar Group Command was established on August 9 th 1915 sat 22 hour. The XVth was transferred to Galicia after Gallipoli (June 23, 1916 -July 15 1917)So the Corps was not in Yemen.

stevebecker
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Posts: 1269
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 03:04
Location: Australia

Re: Strange Orbat?

Post by stevebecker » 05 Jul 2020 21:55

Tosun,

Yes I would also agree.

I don't know where he got these details from?

Did you find any man named Yusuf Zia Pasha?
As I can't

Cheers

S.B

Tosun Saral
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Posts: 3918
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Strange Orbat?

Post by Tosun Saral » 06 Jul 2020 14:15

there isno Yusuf Ziya (Zia) Paşa on WWW1 officers list. Col.Görgülü also dont mention his name in his Yemen list. He is unknown to me. I think He must be one of the pashas governed Yemen or commanded the units before WW1. :)

Tosun Saral
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Posts: 3918
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Strange Orbat?

Post by Tosun Saral » 06 Jul 2020 14:25

İsmet Görgülü, On Yıllık Harbin Kadrosu ( Personal of 10 Years Long War)
Asir
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Tosun Saral
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Posts: 3918
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Strange Orbat?

Post by Tosun Saral » 06 Jul 2020 14:26

YEMEN
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