What war crimes did the allies "admit" to?

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Rommel8
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What war crimes did the allies "admit" to?

Post by Rommel8 » 22 Jun 2003 22:18

I know the Russians admitted to the Katyn Massacre in 1990, but were any others?

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Post by tonyh » 23 Jun 2003 10:11

None, As a rule a country doesn't admit warcrimes. Russia only acknowledged the Katyn, because the West pressurised them into it. If there were no cold war years and Russia wasn't demonised as the "evil empire", then the Katyn massacre would still be attributed to Germany.

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Gerry
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Re: What war crimes did the allies "admit" to?

Post by Gerry » 23 Jun 2003 10:55

Rommel8 wrote:I know the Russians admitted to the Katyn Massacre in 1990, but were any others?
Normally the countries who won the war have not reason to admit any warcrimes. Up to today the allies refuse to admit, that the excessive bombing of german civilians was not justified. Neither would they admit that the aircraft (fighters) which used their machine-guns on civilian fugitives, farmers on the field, children playing outside the house - were wrong.

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Post by demonio » 23 Jun 2003 11:30

Was bombing Dresden a retaliation for something ?

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Deterance
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Re: What war crimes did the allies "admit" to?

Post by Deterance » 24 Jun 2003 03:36

Rommel8 wrote:I know the Russians admitted to the Katyn Massacre in 1990, but were any others?

Poster on another thread states Czechs have, to a certain extent, admitted atrocities against German civilians during Sudetenland expulsions.

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Rommel8
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Post by Rommel8 » 24 Jun 2003 03:48

Dresden was in response to Coventry. But that doesnt justify Cologne and Hamburg, and the french town of Caen, now does it?

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Re: What war crimes did the allies "admit" to?

Post by Dan » 24 Jun 2003 04:21

Deterance wrote:
Rommel8 wrote:I know the Russians admitted to the Katyn Massacre in 1990, but were any others?

Poster on another thread states Czechs have, to a certain extent, admitted atrocities against German civilians during Sudetenland expulsions.
It was ambiguous, but a step it the right direction.

I very fine post, and I commend the original poster. There was an episode of a neocon show a few months ago called Hannity and Colmes, which dealt supperfically with the 45th infantry, and they just brushed it off as antiAmericanism. In other words, any critizism of American or British behavior means you are not patriotic.

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Post by KalaVelka » 24 Jun 2003 08:07

Dresden was in response to Coventry. But that doesnt justify Cologne and Hamburg, and the french town of Caen, now does it?
Coventry wasnt anything compared to dresden.

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Post by demonio » 24 Jun 2003 09:11

Are there any reports or books from those in the inner circle of Britishintelligence that have inside info on the Dresden bombing ?

Also. Did Hitler plant these factories right next to civilians so that he could capitalise on the civilian losses if the allies bombed them ?

Just trying to get "the lay of the land" , so to speak.

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Post by Caldric » 24 Jun 2003 16:33

KalaVelka wrote:
Dresden was in response to Coventry. But that doesnt justify Cologne and Hamburg, and the french town of Caen, now does it?
Coventry wasnt anything compared to dresden.

Winners write history.
Whoever told you that?? This is what 30,000 incendiaries does to a city, the death toll was not what many may think you are right there.

However shall we talk about the East? The death toll at Stalingrad? Or Finland should know what Leningrad looked like with its fires burning every night for 900 days.

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Rommel8
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Post by Rommel8 » 24 Jun 2003 18:34

Stalingrad was bombed by both sides. Russians on the other side of the Volga with the Katyusha and their artiller, and the Germans with their Heinkels and Ju87s

I know Dresden was nothing compared to Coventry, but the thing is Churchill knew the fate of Coventry before it was bombed. The people of Dresden did not.

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Post by alsaco » 24 Jun 2003 19:07

Strange idea !

Do you really tink a warning should be given before a town is bombed ?.
Notification to the FLAK of time and number of bombs ?;

People in Dresden did say, did rumor, that because some aunt or girlfriend of Churchill was buried there, there was no risk of bombing. But nethertheless, Dresden was a railway knot between north, Prague, Nüremberg, München, Wien, Hungary, in times when transfering troops was by train, and from south to north.

In fact the bombing of Dresden was a normal part of the campaign.

The number of deaths resulted from the fact that Gauleiters in Schlesien and Poland did send on the roads women nd childrens to late, and without any planning or organisation.

And, probably, also from the fact that the Saxon authorities were more concerned by plundering the region yhen by protecting it. See Viktor Klemperer memoirs. He was in Dresden from 1933 to the day of yhe bombing, and describes first hand the local situation.

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Post by KalaVelka » 24 Jun 2003 19:29

Whoever told you that?? This is what 30,000 incendiaries does to a city, the death toll was not what many may think you are right there.

However shall we talk about the East? The death toll at Stalingrad? Or Finland should know what Leningrad looked like with its fires burning every night for 900 days.
Caldric you should know that Finland didnt participate siege of Leningrad.
And as somebody mentioned, Stalingrad were bombed by both sides and there was also fight in it. BTW we are talking now about allied crimes, there is plenty of topic of Germanys atriocities.

So do you say that coventry was "badder" than dresden?

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Post by Roberto » 24 Jun 2003 19:51

KalaVelka wrote:
Whoever told you that?? This is what 30,000 incendiaries does to a city, the death toll was not what many may think you are right there.

However shall we talk about the East? The death toll at Stalingrad? Or Finland should know what Leningrad looked like with its fires burning every night for 900 days.
Caldric you should know that Finland didnt participate siege of Leningrad.
This seems to be correct. It has been discussed in detail on the thread

Finland and Russia
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=10575
KalaVelka wrote:And as somebody mentioned, Stalingrad were bombed by both sides and there was also fight in it.
Caldric may be referring to this particular episode:
The air attack on Stalingrad, the most intensive on the whole Eastern Front, was the highlight of von Richthofen’s career after Guernica. On that day [August 23rd, 1942], the planes of the 4th Air Fleet flew a total of 1,600 sorties and dropped 1,000 tons of bombs, losing only three planes. According to some estimates, there were 600,000 people in Stalingrad, and 40,000 were killed during the first week of bombardment.


My translation from the Portuguese translation of Antony Beevor's Stalingrad.
KalaVelka wrote:BTW we are talking now about allied crimes, there is plenty of topic of Germanys atriocities.
Yeah, these "just look what they did" arguments can be very annoying. The topic of this thread is Allied warcrimes, so it might be a good idea to leave it at that.
Last edited by Roberto on 24 Jun 2003 21:35, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Caldric » 24 Jun 2003 20:10

Yes I was talking about the first bombing of Stalingrad, not later when Germans controlled most of the city. The real damage was done in the first few days which killed tens of thousands.


I did not accuse Finland of laying siege but I am sure given their excellent recon ability and being allies with Germany that they knew what was happening there.

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