Most ambitious settler colonialist plans in modern/recent history?

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Loïc
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Re: Most ambitious settler colonialist plans in modern/recent history?

Post by Loïc » 23 Jan 2021 03:49

Well, I was simply thinking of these territories being much closer to home for France--indeed, much closer to the French metropole, so to speak--and also the fact that France actually did have a baby boom in the post-WWII decades. Also, France actually was able to send sizable numbers of its people to settle in both Quebec and New Orleans, no?
...no...despite France was the most populous country mid 18th century (and even equivalent as Germany + Italy + Great Britain together)
New France from Canada to la Louisiane gathered only 85 000 French facing 1 500 000 english-speaking in the british colonies after 150 years of colonization
there were more French emigrants in Argentina (~100 000 c.1900) after few decades of the 19th century than after a century and a half of French colonization in North America

Futurist
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Re: Most ambitious settler colonialist plans in modern/recent history?

Post by Futurist » 23 Jan 2021 04:15

Interesting. So, the number of Quebecois increased 50+ fold since then through their high fertility rates?

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Most ambitious settler colonialist plans in modern/recent history?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 23 Jan 2021 14:06

Hi Futurist,

Essentially, Yes.

The Quebecois are arguably the most "American" population in the Americas after Native Americans, because they have received little reinforcement from France in 250 years.

This differentiates them strongly from Anglo-Canadians.

In both world wars Canada had to limit conscription nationally because, although the more recently arrived British immigrants were still strongly attached to the UK, French Canadians were much more America-centric and less attached to France.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Loïc
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Re: Most ambitious settler colonialist plans in modern/recent history?

Post by Loïc » 23 Jan 2021 15:17

20% of the "Québecois" are like you english-speaking and the all the French-Canadians are not Québecois, beginning by the Acadians of the Maritimes Provinces

the French-Canadians have kept a strong french identity, one century after the conquest they still saw the participation of some of them in redcoats militia in 1871 against the french-speaking of Manitoba as a pure betrayal against french patriots, historically their relation with the conscription and the Canadian Army can be easily explained because they just perceived it as no more than a british army of occupation replaced the real one (the british garrison was withdrawn in 1871)
for them the Canadian army was an english-speaking army copied from the British Army and as in the rest of the Canadian society largely dominated by the english-speaking classes and so assimilated as Great Britain
if the United States are happy to celebrate their separation from Great Britain and built their national identity from that, their neighbours built them from the feeling they were abandonned in 1763

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Most ambitious settler colonialist plans in modern/recent history?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 23 Jan 2021 15:50

Hi Loic,

Nobody is denying that the Quebecois are French in the broadest sense, but their relationship to their "mother country" was more remote and they were more self-contained.

They are, in short, more American.

This was in evidence in WWI and WWII over military service. Even though both Britain and France were in both wars, the British Canadians were far more likely to volunteer for military service overseas than were French Canadians and, when volunteerism was no longer enough, it was consideration of French Canadian reactions that held up conscription.

You are right that the Canadian Army was very much a British-style institution. But, that said, French Canadians did not see the wars of their "mother country" wars as their own in the way that British Canadians still did. British Canadians volunteered in numbers even for the Boer War. There was no similar Quebecois support for any of France's colonial wars.

There is an argument that while French-speakers are self-identifying as "Quebecois", English-speakers are more likely to think of themselves as "Quebecker".

Cheers,

Sid

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henryk
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Re: Most ambitious settler colonialist plans in modern/recent history?

Post by henryk » 23 Jan 2021 21:18

Sid Guttridge wrote:
23 Jan 2021 15:50
There is an argument that while French-speakers are self-identifying as "Quebecois", English-speakers are more likely to think of themselves as "Quebecker".
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/ ... 0provinces.
Over the years, the western provinces have attracted a variety of French-speaking immigrants. Some have been from Québec, although in the last decades of the 19th century Québec discouraged its inhabitants from moving west; too many people were already leaving the province for the New England states in search of employment. Nevertheless, French Canadian missionaries promoted settlement of French-speaking peoples in the West, especially between 1880 and 1912. Many of the settlers came from France, while others were from Québec, New England and Belgium (though WWI ended emigration from Belgium and France). Most of them settled in the Prairie provinces. After 1926, another group of French-speaking settlers established themselves in the Peace River Lowland. The oil boom in Alberta beginning in 1947 and the development of the pulp and paper industry in BC have attracted the most recent migrants from Québec to the West. As of the 1991 census, there are some 230 000 persons of French extraction living in the 4 western provinces, some 163 000 of whom claim French as their mother tongue.
So French Canadians not Quebecers in Western Canada.
https://acadian.org/maritime.html#:~:te ... %2C%20when
Unlike most New World settlers, the Acadians made peace with the local Indians, converting most to Christianity. Their only foes were their chief trading partners, France Prince Edward Island boasts its own Acadian area, the "Région Evangeline," dating back to the first French settlements. In Miscouche, site of the 1884 Acadian Convention, the Musée Acadien is renowned for its early papers and photos. Another recreation of a 19th century settlement is the nearby Acadian Pioneer Village.and Britain. At war for 150 years, both nations alternately claimed Acadia as a strategic military base - while its people asked only to be neutral. In 1755 Britain demanded that they swear allegiance to the Crown. But loath to renounce their heritage, most refused. And so began Britain's dishonour and Acadia's anguish.
As their villages were torched, a few families fled to Quebec. But out of the estimated 15,000 settlers, nearly 10,000 were deported. Most were herded onto ships to France, Britain, the Caribbean or New England, but at various ports they were refused entry. Two boats sank taking 700 lives, while hundreds died of scurvy at sea, or starved in refugee camps. Only Spain offered free land in what is now the southern state of Louisiana, were a wave of "Cajuns" settled.
........................................................................................
Still, since Acadia was their homeland, nearly 4,000 returned. In scores of communities, the Acadian tri-coloured flag flies proudly.
New Brunswick alone is 35 per cent Acadian, and officially bilingual. Along its eastern edge stretch the "Acadian Coasts" - a blend of seaports, sand dunes, salt marshes and rocky crags.
...................................
Prince Edward Island boasts its own Acadian area, the "Région Evangeline," dating back to the first French settlements. In Miscouche, site of the 1884 Acadian Convention, the Musée Acadien is renowned for its early papers and photos. Another recreation of a 19th century settlement is the nearby Acadian Pioneer Village.
So Acacadians, not Quebecers

Based on living as an Anglophone in Quebec for 36 years, after the harsh French language laws were implemented, most Anglophones, including non-French speaking immigrants and their descendants, consider themselves as Canadians not as Quebecers. The Molson beer "Canadian" was the choice in bars. The federally owned PetroCanada, the only gas stations with bilingual signs, was the choice for gas.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Most ambitious settler colonialist plans in modern/recent history?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 23 Jan 2021 22:15

Hi henryk,

I defer to your personal experience.

Cheers,

Sid.

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