Does "Kampffahren" necessarily refer to Siebel ferries?

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Sid Guttridge
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Does "Kampffahren" necessarily refer to Siebel ferries?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 23 Feb 2021 14:16

Does "Kampffahren" necessarily refer to Siebel ferries, or were there other types of vessel that might be covered by this term, such as MFPs?

Thanks for any assistance,

Sid.

Richard Anderson
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Re: Does "Kampffahren" necessarily refer to Siebel ferries?

Post by Richard Anderson » 23 Feb 2021 18:40

Sid,

Insofar as I can tell, Kampffähren included all armed Fährprähmen that were not exclusively intended as transports and were not the "classic" naval vessels types such as Kreuzer, Zerstörer, U-Boote-Jäger, and so on. So it included the Artillerie-Fährprähme, the Flak-Jäger, and the Artillerie-Leichter, whether Marinefährprähme, Marinenachschubleichter, or Siebelfähr-based.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

Sid Guttridge
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Posts: 8900
Joined: 12 Jun 2008 11:19

Re: Does "Kampffahren" necessarily refer to Siebel ferries?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 23 Feb 2021 19:37

Hi Richard,

Thanks. I rather feared that might be the case when I couldn't find "Kampffahren" as a specific class of vessel, just apparently a descriptive generalisation.

I was trying to identify what it specifically meant from a German naval document about the Gulf of Liguria in mid 1944: "Stellt Deutsches Mar.Kdo Italien Gruppe West vorbehaltlich Entwicklung eigener Lage zunächst in Mentone 2 RABoote, in Genua 2 U-Jäger und 2 Kampffähren, in Monaco 2 Kampffähren und in La Spezia 2 deutsche R-Boote zur Verfügung."

Thanks again,

Sid

Darius333
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Re: Does "Kampffahren" necessarily refer to Siebel ferries?

Post by Darius333 » 25 Feb 2021 21:43

Hi Sid,

in Mid of 1944 "Kampffähren" refers for Liguria to Marinefährprähme with additional armament, f.e.:F 589, F 503, F 439.
They were combined in "Kampfgruppen".

Artilleriefährprähme were never user in the Mediterranean, but only in the West, North Sea, Baltic.

Siebelfähre were of course modified to "Kampffähre" and used by the Luftwaffe / Kriegsmarine in the Mediterranean - but not in the Ligurian at the time you requested.

https://historisches-marinearchiv.de/pr ... eibung.php


Regards

Darius

Sid Guttridge
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008 11:19

Re: Does "Kampffahren" necessarily refer to Siebel ferries?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 26 Feb 2021 11:13

Hi Darius333,

Many thanks.

I have checked your link and it has led on to lots of additional useful material.

Cheers,

Sid

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