Kaiser planned to take Manhattan

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Gwynn Compton
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Kaiser planned to take Manhattan

Post by Gwynn Compton » 12 May 2002 06:27

This little gem I discovered in a local newspaper and it originates from the Telegraph Group

Driven by a desire for world domination, Kaiser Wilhelm II, the last German emperor, drew up plans to send an amphibious force of 100,000 troops to attack New York and Boston at the end of the 19th century, according to a German military archive.
The documents detail how the Kaiser authorised the planning of an attack on east coast cites during the 1890s as he sought to advance Germany's geopolitical ambitions. One option, he believe, was to launch huge naval assaults on the United States, a new rival on the world stage, forcing it to recognise Germany's might.
The Kaiser rejected ideas of a naval blockade or a naval battle and made plans for an invasion of the northeastern US. As early as 1897, a young naval lieutenant, Eberhard von Mantey, was authorised to plot the dispatch of a huge fleet across the Atlantic. The main targets, under his first plan, were the American towns of Norfolk, Hampton Roads and Newport News. "That is where the United States can be hit at its most sensitive point and be forced into peace," he wrote.
The challenge from the US seemed even greater to the Kaiser after its victory in 1898 in the Spanish-American war allowed it to acquire Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Philippines in addtion to some of Samoa and Hawaii. The German response was a second plan from Lt von Mantey, which named New York as the main target. "The greatest panic would break out in New York over fears of a bombardment," he wrote.

John Rohl, a research professor in German history at the University of Sussex in Britain and author of many books on the Kaiser, says that though the outline of the plans has been known to scholars for sometime, the letters and other documents have helped to explain the Kaier's limitless ambition and lack of grasp on reality. "This is typical of the unpredictability of the Kaiser and shows his worldwide ambition to make Germany into a superpower. It was a crazy idea. All the European powers had thought they had the world to themselves. Then suddenly, alas, there are two new players on the scene: America and Japan."
As Germany expanded its navy and eyed its European rivals, more and more detailed plans for the American attacks were put together under the Kaiser's guidance. A naval attache at the German embassy in Washinton had already begun scouting for landing locations when a high-ranking officer cast doubt over whether the mission could succeed.
The final draft of the attack was abandoned in 1906, when the Germans began to realise the risks of tackling an ever-more powerful US.
The papers iluminate a little known chapter of German military history and support claims that the expansionist ambitions of the Nazis had roots in the Kaiser's drive for empire.
The newspaper Die Zeit says: "Once again this proves the continuity between the Kaiserreich and the Third Reich because the Nazis also wanted to risk a final fight for world domination with the US 40 years later."


I personally found that article very interesting, and it certainly brightened up my morning :)

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adrian
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Now thats different!

Post by adrian » 12 May 2002 12:10

What an interesting article! Mind you I suppose that every major power has hatched crazy plans over the years. Now just suppose that Germany had managed to even get across the Atlantic without the RN getting very upset and the USN (which was pretty impressive as well) doing the same, can you imagine the amount of coal they would have to lug with them? Coaling every fortnight at the max, they would have had to take hundreds (maybe 500 odd to get a fleet of that size!)of colliers with them!

I wonder if Lt Von Mantey was ever taken seriously? :roll: :wink: :lol:

best regards,
adrian

Gwynn Compton
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Post by Gwynn Compton » 12 May 2002 12:28

It would seem the Kaiser took him seriously, though I'd guess he would have been the laughing stock of the rest of the Great General Staff.

I never realised just how nuts the Kaiser was till reading that. He nearly outdoes Hitler.

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adrian
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Hmmm....

Post by adrian » 13 May 2002 12:38

I dont know that if King Billy was as off his rocker as AH but it certainly makes you start to think! Do you think that it would of made it to OKH or OKW or whatever they had prior to WW1? I can just see some of those Prussian traditionalists guffawing all the way back to Potsdammerplatz after a hard day at the General Staff!
Seriously, did any one even think of the logistic side of the adventure?

best regards,
adrian

Gwynn Compton
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Post by Gwynn Compton » 14 May 2002 02:54

It's probably half of the reason why they realised it was an unobtainable goal.

Still, the idea of creating terror in New York certainly shows that Osama wasn't the first to think of it.

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adrian
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Terror or war by other means?

Post by adrian » 14 May 2002 04:15

I guess I've got to ask is Lt Manteys (or any other coastal bombardment) plan terror or is it a different way of waging war? I mean, like to say, is a bombardment of a Coastal city on a par with a terrorist act? I personally think no, but there are many who will disagree with me.

On a lighter note, who would live in NY? Giant lizards,tidal waves, acts of god etc etc. Seems like Hollywood had it in for the Big Apple for years!

best regards,
adrian

Ovidius
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Post by Ovidius » 30 May 2002 14:02

Gwynn Compton wrote:I never realised just how nuts the Kaiser was till reading that. He nearly outdoes Hitler.


Isn't it !?

When a nice guy, Truman by his name, decides to erase a few hundred thousand Japs from the face of the Earth, or when another even nicer guy, known as Roosevelt the Crippled, wages over Europe a war which he refuses to end otherwise than by Unconditional Surrender, the huge mass of the "common people" hails them as a savior of the humankind.

When Kaiser Wilhelm II dares to even think of a plan to kneel the Americans, in a time when it was still possible, he must have been crazy in the eyes of the same people.

A very intelligent, fair and balanced vision of the world, right?

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

~Ovidius

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Starinov
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Post by Starinov » 30 May 2002 14:40

Ovidius wrote:When Kaiser Wilhelm II dares to even think of a plan to kneel the Americans, in a time when it was still possible, he must have been crazy in the eyes of the same people.

A very intelligent, fair and balanced vision of the world, right?


No, it is just the American way to see the world. They can do everything and nobody else is allowed...

Macdonald's, Macdonald's, Uber alles. :mrgreen:

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Phil V
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Post by Phil V » 02 Jun 2002 13:50

Prussian Junkers in Manhattan?

Culture shock.

The old Prussian military saying "Mehr Sein Als Scheinen" would have to be reversed I think.

Caldric
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Post by Caldric » 27 Aug 2002 19:56

You people really need a reality check you that.


"The US will not let us commit genocide anymore whaaaaaa".

That is just to bad damn. I heard 300 McDonalds are going into Somalia and Afgan. :roll:




Old Crippled Roosevelt and that dirty old man Truman, what was the world thinking! I mean they went into post war Germany/Japan and committed unthinkable executions and mass murder, rape and looting of the population! Oh no sorry I got that backwards that was Germany and Japan that did that to their enemies.... How dare anyone stop them...Duh

Gwynn Compton
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Post by Gwynn Compton » 28 Aug 2002 06:33

Caldric,

The point that I believe the members were trying to make is that America shows a disregard for other cultures that can be related to the actions of the Axis in the Second World War. I suspect that many actions of Americans in Vietnam, are yet to be investigated, and never will be. The United State's objections of an international criminal court also smells of "One standard for you, a different standard for us".

You'll find Starinov voiced this very well,

They can do everything and nobody else is allowed...


You'll also remember that the US is the bastion of free trade, yet it seems free trade only applies to other countries. Meanwhile in the "free and fair" United States, they'll quite happily put quota's and tariffs on imported Steel and Australian and New Zealand lamb (the latter which was ruled illegal by the WTO, and subsequently removed).

Need I cite the United State's middle eastern policy, or have I made it quite clear that the United States is just as faliable as any other nation on earth.


"The US will not let us commit genocide anymore whaaaaaa".


And I'm glad, as I imagine the Native American people's would also be. You'll recall that they were decimated first, inadvertantly, by disease, and then later by "Indian" wars.

The American disregard for other cultures and people is just the same as anywhere else. I do not believe that the United States is evil, but, I am also quite aware that it is no moral bastion.

Regards

Gwynn

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Rob S.
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Post by Rob S. » 28 Aug 2002 14:31

The United State's objections of an international criminal court also smells of "One standard for you, a different standard for us".


US Constitution wrote:Amendment XI

The judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by citizens of another state, or by citizens or subjects of any foreign state.


Do not mock us for something that is written in our constitution. We fought for independence for reasons very similar to this. If a foreign country had a say in in this, we would not be governing ourselfes. No disrespect to Europe or any country, but we did not mock you for having an international court, we just said we didn't want any part of it.

Secondly, I find this German invasion plan very intriguing. Most wars fought on US soil were lost because of the liberal use of militias. You can expect both regulars and civilians taking up arms if you invade the US.

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 28 Aug 2002 14:34

This is going nowhere.

/Marcus

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