1./Panzerjager kompanie 716 June 6th 1944

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AETIUS 1980
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1./Panzerjager kompanie 716 June 6th 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 11 Jul 2022 17:47

Hello,
I am looking for information relating to the destruction of the three Marder I which occurred between Lion sur Mer and Hermanville sur Mer on June 6th. Engaged during the counterattack of KG MICKISCH, these three vehicles of the zug (Oberleutnant d. R REHR)/1.Pz.Jg.Kp.716 (sf) were lost with certainty. However, apart from N 41 RMC which evokes a machine, without specifying its origin, no other information is available on the War Diaries. Ditto for the photos, although atypical gear. So if anyone knows more, I'm all ears.
Thanks

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Re: 1./Panzerjager kompanie 716 June 6th 1944

Post by Sam Wren » 05 Feb 2023 03:03

I wonder if this so-called "Hornet" is actually one of the Marder Is of this Kompanie. I have not found any documentation of Stub.Abt. 200 making it that far west. though 5./Stug.Abt. 200 was supposed to be part of KG Rauch and perhaps it is referring to a gun of this Kompanie.
013a - Second Army Intelligence Summary No.4, 7 June 44, Pg 4 copy.jpg
013 - Second Army Intelligence Summary No.4, 7 June 44, Pg 4 copy.jpg
This is from 2nd Army Intelligence Summary No. 4, 7 June 1944, WO 171/220. At the bottom of the page there is further information on the "Hornet" which is referring the the Hornisse/Nashorn, which did not exist in Normandy, but it was common for the Allies to refer to a wide variety of SP AT guns as Hornets or Ferdinands.
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Last edited by Sam Wren on 05 Feb 2023 07:35, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 1./Panzerjager kompanie 716 June 6th 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 05 Feb 2023 07:10

Merci Sam

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Re: 1./Panzerjager kompanie 716 June 6th 1944

Post by Richard Anderson » 05 Feb 2023 20:11

Sam, I might hesitate assuming there were no Hornisse in Normandy...Lehr had four as of 13 February 1944. I wonder where they ended up?
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Michael Kenny
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Re: 1./Panzerjager kompanie 716 June 6th 1944

Post by Michael Kenny » 05 Feb 2023 23:12

It was common to describe German AFVS as 'hornets'. It was nothing more than shorthand for an enemy vehicle. 'ferdinand' appears to be the code for an enemy SP gun.
Screenshot_301.jpg
This film shows a 'captured' Stug at 7:04 somewhere near St Aubin' on June 6

https://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/1264

Screenshot_147g.jpg
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Re: 1./Panzerjager kompanie 716 June 6th 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 06 Feb 2023 09:06

For the last machine, this one belongs to the StuG.Abt. 1352 engaged in late support of the Kampfgruppe Meyer, of the interdiction of the Seulles at Creully, but also in support of the remains of I./Gr.Rgt. 916 and 9./Art.Rgt.352 on Sommervieux.

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Re: 1./Panzerjager kompanie 716 June 6th 1944

Post by jpz4 » 06 Feb 2023 13:43

FWIW, there is still some debate about StuG 222.
See the sample pages of https://www.panzerwrecks.com/product/th ... r-of-1944/

I also had it identified as 2./Pz.Jg.Abt.352 for a long time, but in 'The Army that got Away', Maarten Swarts an Jack Didden identify it as 2./Pz.Jg.Abt.346.
I've talked to Maarten about this, and he told me they found the unedited footage from the Amfreville area which includes the StuG. I've not seen this footage, but if this information is correct, their identification makes sense. Or is there additional evidence to say it is 2./Pz.Jg.Abt.352 after all?

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Re: 1./Panzerjager kompanie 716 June 6th 1944

Post by Michael Kenny » 06 Feb 2023 14:24

I've talked to Maarten about this, and he told me they found the unedited footage from the Amfreville area which includes the StuG.

I was a bit too hasty posting that link to A70 37-1 and should have looked more carefully at my film listing.
The film of the Stug is A70 37-3 (photographer Parkinson) but it is also tagged (uncredited) on the end of A70 37-1 (photographer Leatherbarrow). It appears to be a unnoticed museum error.
The A70 37-3 shows a couple of the road signs with the location and distance to local places. It is most definitely the St Gabriel area.
Screenshot_152.jpg
Screenshot_152.jpgfff.jpg
The A70-37-3 film is the complete raw footage reel.

https://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/38335
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Re: 1./Panzerjager kompanie 716 June 6th 1944

Post by jpz4 » 06 Feb 2023 14:54

Michael, if A70 37-3 indeed includes the raw footage reel than the area does not seem to be in doubt.

My point is that Maarten suggests A70 37-3 is actually not the raw reel, but I don't know which other reel he is basing his identification on. :( Makes it impossible to check unfortunately

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Re: 1./Panzerjager kompanie 716 June 6th 1944

Post by Michael Kenny » 06 Feb 2023 15:17

jpz4 wrote:
06 Feb 2023 14:54
Michael, if A70 37-3 indeed includes the raw footage reel than the area does not seem to be in doubt.

My point is that Maarten suggests A70 37-3 is actually not the raw reel, but I don't know which other reel he is basing his identification on. :( Makes it impossible to check unfortunately
The IWM Hold the actual reels and the majority are online as-is. The IWM Film Collection is the original raw footage. I have downloaded every single June-August film and I do not have a stug in Amfreville. The Die Deutsche Wochenschau does not show it, the IWM B Series photos do not have a Stug there and neither does the Canadian photo collection.

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Re: 1./Panzerjager kompanie 716 June 6th 1944

Post by Michael Kenny » 06 Feb 2023 16:22

jpz4 wrote:
06 Feb 2023 13:43

I've talked to Maarten about this, and he told me they found the unedited footage from the Amfreville area which includes the StuG.
This Stug appears in a later June 24th film being cut-up at a dump near Douvres. There is no way that a Stug in Amfreville would be moved back across The Orne to Douvres.


A70 57-8
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... 1060008126



Stug wreck 222 Normandy.jpg
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Re: 1./Panzerjager kompanie 716 June 6th 1944

Post by AETIUS 1980 » 06 Feb 2023 16:48

So very probably a machine of the Zug of Lieutenant KUHN, officer who will take the head of the 2./Pz.Jg.Abt.352 after the death near Creully of Oberleutnant DZIALAS.

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