The ultimate fortification thread!

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
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Ebusitanus
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Post by Ebusitanus » 25 Jul 2003 10:20

Nope..books haven´t arrived yet :P

So..does somebody have a good source? (besides that book?)

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 25 Jul 2003 19:52

Do you have any other images of unfinished bunkers
Only one.....
Most of the batteries here in Norway was not 100% when the war ended. But only in a few occations, the main bunkers weren`t finished.
This photo is a beginning of a R-671 casemate. You can see the mounting for the "Pivot-laffette" in the new casemate, aswell as the old open emplacement in the background.
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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 25 Jul 2003 20:02

Besides Italy,where else were these type of bunkers used
They were used in Poland, and even a few was placed at the Westwall.
Seems like a great way to use out-dated surplus
For the Panther turret, there was a cheaper "Bunker version" this is easily recognized by the missing commander copular. We had a earlier thread about these turrets, with some magnificent postings made by Javichu and Trommelfeuer.

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopi ... =bodenturm

As for other turrets, it seems like most tanks were used.... The usual ones are those mentioned by Korbius + 35(t), but on the eastern front, the T-34 was used in several occations. It is also mentioned Sherman turrets in some sources, but I have no photos of such.....

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Von_Mannteufel
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Post by Von_Mannteufel » 27 Jul 2003 07:57

I've heard that german bunkers at normandy had 1m concrete roof and that it could withstand heavy allied bombing for days, is that true?

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 27 Jul 2003 16:28

I've heard that german bunkers at normandy had 1m concrete roof and that it could withstand heavy allied bombing for days, is that true?
Bunkers with one meter roof vas called Vf, and were not regarded as "bombproof" Many of the bunkers in the Normandy area came under this cathegory. To find the real bombproof ones, you have to look at the "Regelbau bunkers". They had 2 meter concrete walls and roof. These could withstand artillery and bombing for days!
There were ofcourse some Regelbau structures in Normandy, but many of the bunkers there were rather "weak"........

Erik

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Andres
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Post by Andres » 27 Jul 2003 23:46

Hi,

In Port Bou (Gerona) remains the last bunker in the Pirinees.
It's a 37 mm Panzer 38 (t) turret in a Concrete estructure.
Last edited by Andres on 28 Jul 2003 23:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 28 Jul 2003 15:43

Hallo!

This sounds interesting!
I have only seen one of these turrets outside Norway, so I would be very glad if you could get me a photo!!!

Here is a few from Norway:
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Andres
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Post by Andres » 28 Jul 2003 23:22

About the pz 38 bunker, I visited it in 1998 but i have no pics :cry:

It is in a wonderful conservation state and it remains because all the bunkers of the Pyrinees where scrapped by French Army and this one was in Spanish ground. (3 m over the border in Spanish side).

I am going to describe it in Spanish according to an article I have read and the I'll try to translate it in my bad English:

El bunker está excavado sobre roca, con entrada a cielo abierto y consta de dos cámaras, estando el bunker completo. La torre es de un Pz 38 (t) ausf D o posterior con un cañón 3,7 KwK 37. La ametralladora no está.
El bunker se encuentra apartado lo que ha repercutido en el magnífico estado en que se encuentra.

And now, the translation:

The Bunker is made on stone, with an open air entrance and has two chambers, being a complete bunker. The turret is from a Pz 38 (t) ausf D or later. The gun is a 3,7 kwk 37, but the machine gun doesn´t remain.
The bunker is not in sight, so the estructure has such a good state.

I don´t know how is this bunker today, but I hope it would not be scrapped or destroyed as most of old guns and bunker here in Spain.


Regards from Spain.

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Weiss Wurst
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Post by Weiss Wurst » 29 Jul 2003 07:57

I wonder, would you consider U-Boot bunkers fortifications, since they are not meant as defensive installations merely to withstand bombardment? I was wondering, as I know of one, and have visited the location twice. It's called U-Boot bunker Valentine, and it is between Bremen and Bremerhaven in a small village called Schwannewede (sp?). It's a pretty dismal place, and isn't apparently well kept. They have tours on Thursday's only, but the structure is truly magnificent as it sits squat and brooding along the river side. I have a few photos from the exterior only, as it's exceptionally dark inside, and I have yet to be able to take the tour. Has anyone been to this site? If so do you have photos of the interior to post? I'm interested in knowing others impressions of the site.

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Juha Hujanen
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Post by Juha Hujanen » 29 Jul 2003 15:00

I would recommend Winston Ramsey-The War In The Channel Islands.Then And Now to all who are interessed of German fortifications.That book has plenty of pics of fortifications in great detail.

Cheers/Juha

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 29 Jul 2003 23:14

would you consider U-Boot bunkers fortifications
It depends on where.... The bunkers used in the flotilla bases in France and a few in Norway was very heavily armed, both with Mg copulars, M-19 automatic grenadelauncers, pak, and loads of "slits" for infantery weapons. I`m not familiar with the structure you mention here, but it sounds like a shipyard bunker? These were just for bomb protection.

A good link to see a "offensive" flotilla bunker, St. Nazaire, can be found here:
http://home.hetnet.nl/~thirdreich-bunke ... azaire.htm

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Weiss Wurst
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Post by Weiss Wurst » 30 Jul 2003 00:37

Yes I see from those photos what you mean. Unfortunately since I've not seen the inside of bunker Valentine, I dont know what sort of inner defense structures are there. It's definitely for u-boots however, as there are several uniform height/width slits that allow egress to the river.

As for grounds fortifications there are none to be seen if there were ever any at all, the grounds are on a park of sorts and therefore rather tidy.

The saddest part of those images you linked was all the graphitti. I detest that kind of desecration, and I've seen it before, also at inside the bunkers below OberSalzburg..err.. Berchtesgaden. miles and miles of underground rooms and tunnels and graphitti everywhere :x

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Tom Houlihan
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Post by Tom Houlihan » 30 Jul 2003 01:29

I just stumbled across a book in a catalog tonite that some of you may be interested in:

BUNKER ARCHEOLOGY. Paul Virillio. Germany's Todt Organization and Reich Labor Service build over 1500 fortifications on the Atlantic coast of France in preparation for the D-Day landings. Paul Virillio has been studying and photographing the surviving structures for many years. His thoughtful text examines many aspects of the Atlantic War, from the strategic to the artistic. His photographs are of unusual and exceptional quality and include, not only examples of the major types of fortifications, but also more unusual examples. This photographic essay is a rare treat for both military enthusiasts and students of historical architecture. It has not previously been available in the US. SB/OP, 100 duo-tone photos, 17 maps/charts, 24p. $25.
Go to http://www.sonic.net/~bstone/blitzbooks/reich.html

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Weiss Wurst
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Post by Weiss Wurst » 30 Jul 2003 04:05

Sounds intersesting, Ill be sure to give it a look see. Thanks for the heads up.

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Erik E
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Post by Erik E » 30 Jul 2003 09:20

graphitti everywhere
I know what you mean.......

Here in Norway you don`t see much graphitti on the bunkers! For some reason, close to 100% of the bunkers are clean :)

Here`s a photo from Norway :) , and the same type in Germany :(
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