Junkers Ju-290 to Manchuria 1944

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Panzermahn
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Junkers Ju-290 to Manchuria 1944

Post by Panzermahn » 30 Jul 2003 05:49

I read from a website about KG200 that 3 Junkers Ju-290 made round trips to Manchuria in the far east. What is the puporse of such a far flight? anyone had anything more about this operation?

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Post by daveh » 30 Jul 2003 13:09

3 Ju 290 from FAGr 5 were transferred to Finsterwalde for modification.
They flew from Odessa and Mielic and carried aero engines and "special" cargoes out and rare metals and raw rubber and other strategic materials back.

source German Aircraft of the Second World War by Smith and Kay

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Post by Witch-King of Angmar » 31 Jul 2003 11:22

daveh wrote:3 Ju 290 from FAGr 5 were transferred to Finsterwalde for modification.
They flew from Odessa and Mielic and carried aero engines and "special" cargoes out and rare metals and raw rubber and other strategic materials back.

source German Aircraft of the Second World War by Smith and Kay


Some people say that neither the Manchuria flights, nor the New York flight of late 1944 did happen.

~The Witch King of Angmar

PS the guidelines don't forbid to deny aircraft flights... :P

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 31 Jul 2003 19:16

neither the raid to New York nor the trip to Manchuria happened with the FAGr 5 unit. This from official sources in the BA/MA archiv's in Freiburg covering the units particpation during the war with the Ju 290 and 390 a/c. The book on FAGr 5 is in the works......in Germany right now !

der Altenwolf 8)

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David Brown
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Junkers Ju-290 to Manchuria 1944

Post by David Brown » 31 Jul 2003 21:52

Erich wrote:neither the raid to New York nor the trip to Manchuria happened with the FAGr 5 unit. This from official sources in the BA/MA archiv's in Freiburg covering the units particpation during the war with the Ju 290 and 390 a/c. The book on FAGr 5 is in the works......in Germany right now !

der Altenwolf 8)



There was a long range flight which flew a few miles of the American coast. It wasn't reputed to have flown it, it actually did. It was the V2 model of the Junkers Ju390. It was one of those aircraft that could either be used as a long range bomber or a reconnaisance aircraft.

I'm a little unclear as to when it happened though because I've wrote in my notes "October 1943" but I'm unsure if this was the date it successfully demonstrated it capability of flying for 32 hours or the time it made the 12 miles from New York. It's a sod if I can read my own writing at times. Work had already begun on the V3 series but the war came to an end. It's design changes would have given the V3 model the capability of carrying 4 x 3,968lb bombs, or various missles to the equivalent weight. It was to carry 8 x 20mm MG 151's and a further 8 x 13mm MG 131's.

With regard to the flights of the JU 290, there were a number of flights made as the war was drawing to a close. These flights were for the purposes of taking out works of art etc! but I believe there was one flight that was made from one of the most northerly air bases in Norway. It flight path was, to the best of my recollection, across the North Pole and down into the Kirolean Islands (not sure if I've spelt that right) which were Russian owned but under Japanese occupation. There was a lot of diplomatic activity because the Japanese apparently were not happy about something and it fuelled speculation that this was the escape route that was being prepared for Hitler on his way to South America.

Dave

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 31 Jul 2003 22:01

Dave, of course you have the references to back it up correct ? There are no reprots of FAGr 5 making the trip towards New York

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David Brown
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Junkers Ju-290 to Manchuria 1944

Post by David Brown » 31 Jul 2003 22:11

Erich wrote:Dave, of course you have the references to back it up correct ? There are no reprots of FAGr 5 making the trip towards New York


I can fish them out for you Erich if you want to know them but it will mean a trip to my local library as I keep all my info on bits of paper so if you don't mind waiting for a bit.

I hope I didn't come across as if I was rubbishing your info'. Sorry if you felt that way. It certainly was not my intention, but in the light of the movement of stolen art treasures, I doubt that any record would have been kept of them, after all the people who were trying to, and succeeded in escaping needed something to keep themselves alive.

Dave

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 31 Jul 2003 22:21

Dave, I feel the same way as I replied, don;t want to step on toes but the Manchuria and New York a/c flights were covered in immense details on a Japanese a/c forum some years ago. Researched by an American as well as German historian, they both found no proof whatsoever that any flights were made by the stealth recon unit FAGr 5, and I haven't either. Now we do know a bit about stealth KG 200 and it's activites as well and from my standpoint I am a little unclear. I do have a very dear friend that flew single seaters with KG 200 but he was not with the gruppen flying agent and arms drops in Europe with the twin engine a/c.

I still have many questions which I am researching heavily about FAGr 5 and have written two other authors for replies. As I am excited about the forthcoming book am sure it will clear up any misgivings we may have on the units activites especially from 43 through late 44 before the unit was almost dissolved and members were called upon to form a new Arado 234 gruppe for recon duties over Germany in 45.

Erich

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David Brown
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Junkers Ju-290 to Manchuria 1944

Post by David Brown » 31 Jul 2003 23:50

Hello again Erich.

I'll go and do some fishing and get back to you. It won't be the first time I've been corrected in the Forum so don't worry about it because that's what it's all about for me.

Take care, speak to you again soon.

Dave

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Post by varjag » 01 Aug 2003 13:21

Meanwhile I too - doubt these German flights to the USA - seems Goebbels would have made them more widely known - if given a chance.
But did (?) the Italians achieve, what the Germans did not - an air link to Japan? There are several net sites that testify to an Italian successful flight to Manchuria and on to Japan AND BACK in 1942, quite an accomplishment!!!!

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David Brown
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Junkers Ju-290 to Manchuria 1944

Post by David Brown » 02 Aug 2003 22:03

Hello again Erich

Erich wrote:Dave, of course you have the references to back it up correct ? There are no reprots of FAGr 5 making the trip towards New York


HITLER'S LUFTWAFFE by Tony Wood & Bill Gunston, page 218. It's the book that I've taken most of my notes from.

Dave

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harry palmer
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Post by harry palmer » 12 Aug 2003 10:03


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Matt Gibbs
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New York flight...

Post by Matt Gibbs » 12 Aug 2003 12:37

I have the detail mentioned in Warplanes of the third Reich by William Green, published 1970 and also in German Aircraft of the Second World War by JR Smith and AL Kay. Both mention the Ju390 flight from France to US Coast and return. I wonder if anyone knows what these authors sources were, William Green was a well respected and thorough researcher.
I enjoy the controversy and look forward to finding out more information. For those who think, of course, that it may have happened, I suppose they might think the onus is for someone to prove it didn't happen, howevrer, due to what I have read and the thoughts that the Japanese didn't want the Germans to fly over Russia and affect the Russo-Japanese non agression pact it seems unlikely. I suppose thats why they developed the huge cargo carrying subs for sailing to Japan..?

Some reasoned information which will be of use can be found at this interesting link...

http://www.j-aircraft.com/faq/ju290_fli ... a_1944.htm

Regards
Matt Gibbs

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 12 Aug 2003 17:27

I have been in chat at length with Steve on this materials from the Green/others books. and believe that FAGr 5 never took part in any action to the US coast line. As I mentioned I have reports copied from the Freiburg archiv's that do not list any flights towards the US. I cannot say for KG 200 and their flights with the Ju 390 if they reached the Orient but I do not bleieve these either....
I have also been in contact with historian's and experten on the Ju 90, 290 and 390, Günther Ott/Karl Kössler and he bleives as I do that no flights were attempted.
Until the book on FAGr 5 can be produced by the veterans the flights will always be regarded as a myth.

~E

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Matt Gibbs
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Thanks Erich

Post by Matt Gibbs » 12 Aug 2003 23:19

Just out of interest what published or private information do you think William Green used to suggest that the flights took place. The "myth" must have come from somewhere. I am sure that a man such as he would not have made this up. He must have had a source..? Is he still alive I wonder...?
Regards
Matt Gibbs

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