This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations and related topics hosted by the Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Christian Ankerstjerne’s Panzerworld and Christoph Awender's WW2 day by day.
Founded in 1999.
Annelie wrote:Max, the previous home stood that way I believe.
I guess the south view at that site would have been very uninteresting - looking straight into the rise and not much sun.
My point was, why not a site with a fabulous view AND better use of the winter sun ?
I think that the low winter sun is behind the hill for most of the day , thus the Berghof would have be in its shadow.
Perhaps there are other peculiarities of the topography that make the site more attractive.
Someone who knows the site might have comments on how the building interacted with sun - especially in winter.
Yes, that's true. Hitler chose Haus Wachenfeld because it was available (or, perhaps it would be better to say that he convinced the owner to make it available), but he particularly wanted that location because of the view of the Untersberg and his native Austria to the north. The story is explained in my book, but Hitler stated that his affinity to the Untersberg legends and the view of Austria were his basic reasons for settling there.
The north facing Berghof did have the same problems as any north facing mountain house - front not lit by the sun, so dark most of the day, same with cold. Herbert Döhring and Christa Schroeder both said in their memoirs that the Berghof was always cold ... but, of course, this situation kept it cool on hot summer days as well.
Thanks Geoff for your comments. I now realise why I have always had the orientation of the Berhof so wrong.
My thinking was;
The Berhof faced toward Austria.
Austria is to the South of Bavaria.
Therefor the Berghof faced South.
I have at last studied a map of the border district to see that it is possible to face North in Bavaria and look towards Austria.
Salzburg, Austria is almost due north of Obersalzberg, Bavaria.
Looks like I should get your book.
Geoff Walden wrote:I went back and had another look at the post-bombing aerial photos, and I see three other large craters that may have been made by the same size bomb that made the crater in the hillside behind the Berghof. Two of these bombs hit in wooded areas, and their craters may still be visible, between the path going to the Teehaus from the Türken, and the Obertalstrasse. The third hit out in the Gutshof meadow, which is now the golf course, so naturally it has been filled in and smoothed over.
I don't know what size bomb(s) made these craters, but they are considerably larger than the surrounding bomb craters, and look roughly the size of the Berghof crater.
One thing that struck me as I was looking over these photos ... although the main targets were the Berghof and SS Kaserne, and both of these were hard hit, the vast majority of the bombs fell east of the primary targets, in the Klaushöhe-Riemerfeld-Buchenhöhe area, and the surrounding woods.
Geoff - I'm going through old posts to search a certain picture. I came across this post with your question. The bomb that made the crater in the escarpment behind the Berghof was definitely a 12,000 lb Tallboy, as designed by Barnes Wallis. I can't speak for the other two craters, but they do look the same size. I've been trying to understand how many Tallboys were dropped on Obersalzberg that day but can't find the information.
I'm afraid I have to admit defeat, as there are currently 246 posts on the subject to wade through!
In a fortnight I'm taking a friend to Obersalzberg and giving him a tour, and am preparing an interesting file of before and after pictures for him. He's never even been to Germany before so this will be an eye-opener.
I'm looking for a picture I saw on this thread of the bottom of the road that leads up 'Goering Hill' past the adjutant's house. I.e. the junction of that little hill road and Hintereck. All intact, so before the bombing. This is the road that now winds up to the Intercontinental. If I remember from the photo there was a small sentry gate there?
In August 2013 I visited the Obersalzberg for the first time. I made six Now & Then episodes which I already posted on this forum (see the links below). As it seems I will go back this year, because I want to do a re-run of the Kehlsteinhaus (see episode 5 why) and see the beautifull sight on top. Since I receive so many positive reactions, I could and would like to even make more new episodes... So, I was wondering if you guys maybe have some ideas of making episodes of areas not been covered by any of my previous ones. For this, I will need some good pictures from the past of that area. Just reply this message or give me a private message with your ideas and/or photo's. Cheers, Jeroen.
This is good Jeroen—thanks for posting all these in one spot for reference. A picture is worth a thousand words you know.
After watching these before and after still image fades on the movies—there's a bit of wisdom comes to mind— 'to every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven'.
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Jeroen7 wrote:In August 2013 I visited the Obersalzberg for the first time. I made six Now & Then episodes which I already posted on this forum (see the links below). As it seems I will go back this year, because I want to do a re-run of the Kehlsteinhaus (see episode 5 why) and see the beautifull sight on top. Since I receive so many positive reactions, I could and would like to even make more new episodes... So, I was wondering if you guys maybe have some ideas of making episodes of areas not been covered by any of my previous ones. For this, I will need some good pictures from the past of that area. Just reply this message or give me a private message with your ideas and/or photo's. Cheers, Jeroen.
Interesting photo, but no it wasn't that one. It was a picture of the road that goes up what was then called Goring Hill. The road that now winds up to the Intercontinental. I don't remember that any houses were visible in the picture (or possibly just a bit of the adjutants house).
Jeroen7 wrote:Does someone know where this picture is taken?
Unfortunately, I don't know the source/photographer.
I think this might be the photograph I was looking for. Is this the bottom of 'Goring Hill'? I.e. the road that now winds up to the Intercontinental, past Goring's adjutant's house?
Does anyone know if this road still exist (for a now&then) or has it totaly been altered after the building of the Intercontinental?
This area was modified during the Third Reich period (after this photo was taken), because of all the security gates and the large paved area put in there. The InterConti drive follows somewhat the route of Göring's drive, but the scene standing here looks different today.