David Irving

LeighLancs · Post by **LeighLancs** » 14 May 2002 13:20

Is anyone else very concerned about the way he's been treated?

I set about trying to buy his Hess 1941-45 book lately, realising it's considered something of a ground-breaking, highly important work.

Could I find it?? Could I bloody hell. It took about 4 hours of gorping blankly into the screen before I found someone that was selling it.

And all because he disagrees with the mass view on the Holocaust and has tried to dispell the simplistic myth that 6 million Jews were killed by one man.

I realise a lot of the legal profession was a little perturbed about how he was treated in the trial against that Lipstsdt character, who never even opened her gob once during the entire trial, whereas Irving represented himself (very well, might I add).

Now he's bankrupt it would seem that readers of the Third Reich such as ourselves are hampered by the fact that we're not allowed to listen to what such a brilliant, exhaustive historian such as Irving has to say.

I think this is what you call Jewish power, or as Guttenstein in the book about the trial says, 'wearing the badge of martyrdom on the robes of power.'

Couldn't have put it better myself.

tonyh · Post by **tonyh** » 14 May 2002 15:25

I too think Ivring has been treated diabolically. But the law suit against third rate holo historian Lipstadt was his own bad mistake. He simply should have let her say her twaddle. After all nobody will even know who Lipstadt is, in 5 years time. While Irvings books will stand on their own merrit. The trial has damaged Irving's career though, as people who have never read him now consider him a neo-nazi, holo denier, anti-Semite racist, whose books are full of Jew hate etc. However anyone who has read any of his works know that the broad stroke painting is way off the mark. I consider his books to be essential reading for anyone seriously interested in the second world war and they should be available to buy. They are available over the net from his website.

His opinions on the holocaust are his own and EVERYBODY is entitled to the right to hold opinions. This includes reprehensible Lipstadt too, by the way. However, there has been a concerted effort to ban Irving's books and block him from visiting certain countries around the world. This I don't agree with. Two years ago, I could buy a David Irving book with no problem in Ireland, now I cannot find any on the bookshelves. Thats a shame.

Strangely the case has stirred an interest in Irving's work among people who haven't read him before, but where always aware of him as a historian, not as a "holocaust denier" to use Lipstadt's rediculous term. However, with his books banned, his "enemies" who want to silence him have succeded. People can't buy the books.

His book on Rommel, "Trail of the fox" is second to none, imo.

Tony

kelty90 · Post by **kelty90** » 14 May 2002 16:15

If you want to read Irving...go to your Friendly Local Public Library...if they don't have anything that you want, they will get it. My local county system has, for example, four copies of the Hess book. They also seem to have copies of every book that he has had published. All lending copies of books in all British public libraries are available to all other systems in the UK (and beyond). And, after all you are paying for the public library system, so use it.
It is not to be expected that any Irving book be available in any but the very largest bookshops anywhere in the world. There are thousands of book published each month, and booksellers cannot be expected to stock ancient titles by a minor historian.
I am a librarian myself!...and as far as use of public libraries is concerned, interest in the Third Reich is very small. There is far more interest in WW1 and the Napoleonic Wars. I doubt that a single book published on trains or computers (for example) is not bought by us because of known interest. Maybe people interested in Napoleon are more literate than those interested in WW2 Germany, or maybe Third Reich fans buy all their books over the internet...but, they do not go to libraries or "normal" bookshops. It is hardly surprising that we (and bookshops) do not stock a larger selection.

HaEn · Post by **HaEn** » 14 May 2002 19:11

>>If you want to read Irving...go to your Friendly Local Public Library...if they don't have anything that you want, they will get it. My local county system has, for example, four copies of the Hess book. They also seem to have copies of every book that he has had published. <<

Don't be too sure of your local library having it. I have lately noticed that more and more books that don't agree with the popular (politically correct) visons of the world are simply disappearing from the shelves, and even off the computerized inventory. The good news is that many second hand bookstores will be more than happy to help you find what you want. just my 2 pf. HN

GrossDeutschland · Post by **GrossDeutschland** » 14 May 2002 19:34

Can't say I agree with Holocaust denial, but there's no "denying" the fact that he writes a good book. Hitler's War is a masterpiece.

ZARATHUSTRA · Post by **ZARATHUSTRA** » 15 May 2002 00:38

If you are interested in Irving's books you can download some of them off his internet site for free http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/index.html

Dan · Post by **Dan** » 15 May 2002 02:32

His books are still available here in the US Library system also, but several other countries (I think this includes Canada) disallow them. ABE usually carries them used, and that's were I usually get mine.

Scott Smith · Post by **Scott Smith** » 15 May 2002 03:30

If your local library does not have an Irving title, you should be able to get anything you want through Inter-Library Loan. I don't have any figures but the entire WWII section of most libraries and bookstores is being taken over by the Holocaust genre like a hungry blob.

kelty90 · Post by **kelty90** » 15 May 2002 08:33

Although libraries and bookstores try to maintain a broad range of titles and try to anticipate demand, they have to reflect actual demand by known customers and users. And, there is considerably more interest in the Holocasust than in the sort of books most of the users of this forum like to read.
I can purchase books for the library system that i work for, which is both large and quite well funded. Virtually no one asks for Third Reich related books. We haven't bought the, cheap, Osprey books on WW2 German topics...and no-one has asked for them, and we certainly haven't bought those lovely, expensive, Schiffer, books...but I would instantly if anyone requested them. Third Reich military titles languish on the shelves unread, and the librararians get rid of them to make way for more popular books.
However, there is not a single title, in English, about the Third Reich that cannot be got by any British public library for a reader for a nominal request fee.
I say again use the public library...If you don't, then they never will buy the titles that you want.

Scott Smith · Post by **Scott Smith** » 15 May 2002 09:22

kelty90 wrote:I say again use the public library...If you don't, then they never will buy the titles that you want.

I second that. They are always able and willing to help anyone interested.

Annelie · Post by **Annelie** » 15 May 2002 10:12

HaEn is correct in that observation. I am sure it depends on what area you may live in.

Don't be too sure of your local library having it. I have lately noticed that more and more books that don't agree with the popular (politically correct) visons of the world are simply disappearing from the shelves, and even off the computerized inventory. The good news is that many second hand bookstores will be more than happy to help you find what you want. just my 2 pf. HN

Annelie

ps. thankyou Scott for help.

tonyh · Post by **tonyh** » 15 May 2002 10:26

>>If you want to read Irving...go to your Friendly Local Public Library<<

What if you want to own the books for reference? Some people cannot get easily to libraries too.

Tony

tonyh · Post by **tonyh** » 15 May 2002 10:35

>>. And, there is considerably more interest in the Holocasust than in the sort of books most of the users of this forum like to read.<<

But only really since the end of the seventies and into the eighties and now, its never been as "popular" as it is. This is primarilly because its blasted out at everyone almost on a daily basis. Before, the holocaust was just part of many different parts of WWII. Now, to a lot of people its the be all end all of WWII. When I was a kid, it was hard to come by a "holocaust" book in a library. Now their impossible to get away from. They strangle space for other books on the war

Tony

Matt Gibbs · Post by **Matt Gibbs** » 15 May 2002 12:30

Through the library loan system in the UK it should be possible to find out about viewing any book which is in the UK. This depends entirely on the interest shown by the librarian whom you might speak to..! If they are busy or harrassed you might get fobbed off with the quick answer 'we can't get it/don't have it/don't want to know. This is NOT a post to labvel librarians as unhelpful, but that sometimes pressures of work make it an easy option to say NO. I myself have experienced this and gone to other libraries where they have had the book in question. Some book sof a rare or specialist nature may mean a trip elsewhere to a reference section but the serious researcher should be ready for this.! I searched for a copy of an 1888 publication about the military strategy of the british army in the Hazara campaign on India. One of the little colonial actions of the army for which a medal and bar was issue. Through perservering and the help of the British Library I was able to view a copy of this rare volume and also look at original material, telegrams and suchlike associated with the famous generals and politicians at the time. I had to view it at the records centre of course!!
I don't quite agree that libraries don't see the interest in readers wanting books on the Third Reich. There are hundreds of thousands of book sprinted on the Third Reich. Certainly the British Library system has a policy of obtaining copies of EVERY book published, on whatever subject. Indeed, if you search through their catalogue and find a book they HAVEN'T got, point it out because they thank you and sometimes give a 'reward' and they go after the publisher to find out why they didn't get a copy!! I hold the view that its seems to be well known amongst people I know that books on the Third Reich are few and far between in th elibrary so because I know this I don't bother to go to the library to look! I use alternative means, ABE, internet etc. Perhaps the challenge to the libraries is to GET some more interesting books about the third reich period!! If I could have borrowed the German Anti Partisan Actions book from the library I wouldn't have had to go and order it from my local Waterstones would I...??? Come on Libraries !! Anyone care to write a wish list for the shelves of their local library..?
Regards
Matt G

Al Carter · Post by **Al Carter** » 15 May 2002 14:14

Have any of you purchased any books from the Irving website? He has a few books for sale there. After reading a few of these posts I searched B&N.com and Amazon, and boom no Irving books that were not used.

I have seen reference to Hitlers War, and most have been of a positive note, guess I will hold off on Beevors new one and go for this one.

Al Carter

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