Help with German officers that received a Romanian Order

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Victor
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Help with German officers that received a Romanian Order

Post by Victor » 13 Sep 2003 16:25

I need help in finding the first names or the units they served in of some German officers, which received the Romanian Virtutea Aeronautica Order. At least the high ranking officers. I have no hope in finding the first name of a Leutenant Wolfers, for example, but unfortunately this is the way they appear in Romanian documents.

Here is the first batch, with unknown first names:
General Major Menzel
Feldmarschall Milch

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VJK
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Post by VJK » 13 Sep 2003 20:04

Hi Victor!

GENERALFELDMARSCHALL ERHARD MILCH (RK)
Born: 30 Mar 1892 in Wilhelmshaven
Died: 25 Jan 1972 in Wuppertal
Promotions:
Fähnrich (18 Oct 1910); Leutnant (18 Aug 1911); Oberleutnant (18 Aug 1915); Hauptmann (18 Aug 1918); Charakter als Oberst (28 Oct 1933); Charakter als Generalmajor (24 Mar 1934); Charakter als Generalleutnant (28 Mar 1935); Charakter als General der Flieger (30 Jan 1936); General der Flieger (20 Apr 1936); Generaloberst (01 Nov 1938); Generalfeldmarschall (19 Jul 1940)
Career:
Entered the Army as Fahnenjunker, Battery-Officer in the 1st Foot-Artillery-Regiment (24 Feb 1910-01 Aug 1914)
Detached to the Foot-Artillery-Firing-School (01 Oct 1913-01 Jan 1914)
Adjutant of the II. Reserve-Battalion of the 1st Foot-Artillery-Regiment (02 Aug 1914-30 Jun 1915)
Pilot-Trainer in Jüterbog (01 Jul 1915-04 Aug 1915)
Observer with the 205th Artillery-Flying-Battalion (05 Aug 1915-27 Aug 1915)
Observer with the Artillery-Flying-Battalion A 204 (28 Aug 1915-14 Jun 1916)
Adjutant of the Artillery-Flying-School East I (15 Jun 1916-03 Jul 1917)
Detached to Army-Flight-Park 6 (04 Jul 1917-08 Jul 1917)
Observer and Temporary-Leader of the 5th Flying-Battalion (09 Jul 1917-30 Jul 1917)
Photographic-Officer with Flying-Group-Leader 2 (30 Jul 1917-08 Apr 1918)
Detached as Aspirant for the Grand General Staff to Army-Flight-Park 17 (09 Apr 1918-18 Jul 1918)
At the same time, Company-Leader in the 41st Infantry-Regiment (23 Apr 1918-08 Jun 1918)
At the same time, Leader of the Escort-Battery in the 273rd Field-Artillery-Regiment (09 Jun 1918-18 Jul 1918)
Signals-Officer with the Staff of the Commander Of Flying 17 (19 Jul 1918-19 Sep 1918)
Leader of Flying-Battalion A 204 (20 Sep 1918-30 Sep 1918)
Leader of Fighter-Group 6 (01 Oct 1918-02 Dec 1918)
Demobilisation in Graudenz (02 Dec 1918-03 Dec 1918)
Detached to the Staff of the Commander Of Flying 1 and Placed to the Disposal of the Chief Of The General Staff of the XVII. Army-Corps (04 Dec 1918-11 Jan 1919)
Observer with the Border-Protection-Flying-Battalion A 429 (12 Jan 1919-26 Feb 1919)
Leader of Flying-Special-Squadron of the XVII. Army-Corps (27 Feb 1919-19 Apr 1919)
Leader of Border-Protection-Flying-Squadron 412, later renamed Reichswehr-Flying-Squadron 117 (20 Apr 1919-04 Sep 1919)
Leader of the Police-Flying-Squadron Königsberg (05 Sep 1919-04 Dec 1919)
Placed to the Disposal of the Processing-Office of the I. Army-Corps, Königsberg (05 Dec 1919-31 Jan 1920)
Retired (31 Jan 1920)
Leader of the Danzig Air Post and Flight-Leader of the Firm Junkers Air-Commerce AG, Danzig (01 Feb 1920-1921)
Managing Director of the Firm Junkers Air-Commerce AG then of the German Lufthansa (1921-31 Dec 1925)
Member of the Executive Committee of German Lufthansa AG, Berlin (01 Jan 1926-21 Feb 1933)
Deputy Reichs Commissioner for Aviation (02 Feb 1933-05 May 1933)
State-Secretary in the Reichs Air Ministry (05 May 1933-20 Jun 1944)
Entered Army Service – with the Authorisation to Carry the Uniform of the 1st Artillery-Regiment (28 Oct 1933-20 Apr 1936)
Transferred into Luftwaffe Service (20 Apr 1936)
General-Inspector of the Luftwaffe and Representative of the Reichs Minister of Aviation and Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe (01 Feb 1939-31 Jan 1945)
Commander-in-Chief of Air-Fleet 5 (12 Apr 1940-09 May 1940)
Chairman of the Supervisory-Board and President of the German Lufthansa AG, Berlin (1942-31 Jan 1945)
Leader of Transport-Formations Stalingrad (19 Jan 1943-30 Jan 1943)
Führer-Reserve OKL (04 Feb 1945-04 May 1945)
In British Captivity then Military-Prison (04 May 1945-28 Jun 1954)
Tried by the US Number II Court at Nuremberg, January-April 1947 for deportations, enslavements and criminal medical experiments in human beings (Crimes Against Humanity) and Sentenced to Life Imprisonment (17 Apr 1947)
Sentence reduced to 15 Years (31 Jan 1951)
Released (28 Jun 1954)

Decorations & Awards:
Ritterkreuz (04 May 1940)
1939 Spange zum 1914 EK I
1939 Spange zum 1914 EK II
1914 EK I
1914 EK II
Gemeinsames Flugzeugführer- und Beobachter-Abzeichen in Gold mit Brillanten (Combined Pilot's and Observer's Badge in Gold with Diamonds)
Medaille zur Erinnerung an die Heimkehr des Memellandes (22 Mar 1939) Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 01 Oct 1938
Spange "Prager Burg"
Medaille zur Einnerung an den 13 Mar 1938
Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer
Goldenes Parteiabzeichen
Deutsche-Olympia-Ehrenzeichen 2. klasse

Info obtained from: http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/WEHRM ... FM-LW.html

GENERALLEUTNANT KURT MENZEL
Born: 12 Jun 1888 in Marktheidenfeld, Bavaria (Bayern)
Died: 30 Dec 1969 in Munich (München)
Promotions:
Gefreiter (01 Apr 1908); Unteroffizier (01 Aug 1908); Unteroffizier (ROA) (30 Sep 1908); Vizewachtmeister der Reserve (11 Jun 1909); Leutnant der Reserve (07 Jan 1914); Oberleutnant der Reserve (29 Oct 1917); Oberleutnant (04 Mar 1918); Polizei-Oberleutnant (01 Oct 1920); Polizei-Hauptmann (01 Jun 1923); Polizei-Major (01 Aug 1934); Major (01 Oct 1935); Oberstleutnant (01 Nov 1935); Oberst (01 Oct 1937); Generalmajor (01 Oct 1939); Generalleutnant (01 Nov 1942)
Career:
Entered the Army as One Year Volunteer in the 7th Bavarian Field-Artillery-Regiment (01 Oct 1907-30 Sep 1908)
Discharged to the Reserve (30 Sep 1908)
Called Up from Reserve (Active-Officer from 04 Mar 1918) in the 4th Bavarian Field-Artillery-Regiment (01 Aug 1914-19 Apr 1919)
Transferred to the City-Defence Augsburg (20 Apr 1919-22 Apr 1919)
Ordinance-Officer with the Artillery-Leader of Freikorps Hierl (22 Apr 1919-24 Sep 1919)
Ordinance-Officer with the Staff of Artillery-Leader 21 (25 Sep 1919-27 Sep 1919)
Battery-Officer in the 21st Artillery-Regiment (28 Sep 1919-30 Sep 1920)
Transferred to Police Service with the Bavarian State-Police Augsburg (01 Oct 1920-10 Feb 1922)
Transferred to the Bavarian State-Police Munich (11 Feb 1922-30 Nov 1928)
Subsidiary-Leadership-Training with the Staff of the 7th Division (01 Oct 1923-30 Jul 1924)
Training-Advisor with the Bavarian State-Police-Office Munich, Instructor at the Police-School Munich, then Air-Protection-Agent for Bavaria (01 Dec 1928-23 May 1934)
Detached as Advisor to the Inspector of Flak Artillery and of Air-Protection, RLM (24 May 1934-30 Sep 1935)
Transferred into Luftwaffe Service as Battery-Chief in the 25th Flak-Regiment, Ludwigsburg (01 Oct 1935-30 Sep 1936)
Commander of the I. Battalion of the 28th Flak-Regiment, Kitzingen (01 Oct 1936-30 Sep 1938)
Commander of the 9th Flak-Regiment ‘Legion Condor’ (01 Oct 1938-28 Feb 1940)
Commander of Air-Defence-Command 7, Cologne (29 Feb 1940-03 May 1941)
Commander of Air-Defence-Command 5 (05 May 1941-31 Aug 1941)
Commander of the 5th Flak-Division (01 Sep 1941-15 Apr 1942)
Officer with Special Duties of the RLM and Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe (15 Apr 1942-30 Nov 1942)
Retired (30 Nov 1942)
Placed to the Disposal of the Luftwaffe (01 Dec 1942-05 May 1945)
Liaison-Man of the Reichs-Group Of Industry for the Work-Air-Protection to the Agencies in the strongly Air-Endangered and Frontline Areas of the West (07 Aug 1944-05 May 1945)
In US Captivity (05 May 1945-00 Sep 1945)
Released (00 Sep 1945)

Info obtained from: http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/WEHRM ... W_M-Z.html

Regards,

VJK

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Post by USAF1986 » 13 Sep 2003 20:15

Also, here’s a photo of Luftwaffe Generaloberst Otto Deßloch displaying the Commander Grade with Swords of the Romanian Order of Aeronautical Virtue. Unfortunately, I don't know his award date or if he held any other Romanian decorations.

Here are his WWII commands:
• 3 October 1939-31 March 1942: Commanding General of II. Flak-Korps.
• 12 April 1942-3 September 1943: Commanding General of I. Flak-Korps.
• 25 November 1942-6 February 1943: At the same time, Commander of Luftwaffe Command Caucasus, Russia.
• 7 February 1943-March 1943: At the same time, Commander of Luftwaffe Command Kuban, Russia.
• 4 September 1943-21 August 1943: Delegated with the post of Chief of Luftflotte 4 on the Eastern Front.
• 22 August 1944-21 September 1944: Commander-in-Chief of Luftflotte 3 on the Western Front.
• 22 September 1944-7 April 1945: Commander-in-Chief of Luftflotte 4 on the Eastern Front.
• 8 April 1945-26 April 1945: Commander-in-Chief of Luftwaffe Command 4 on the Eastern Front.
• 2 April 1945-8 May 1945: Commander-in-Chief of Luftflotte 6 on the Eastern Front.

Regards,
Shawn
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Post by Victor » 13 Sep 2003 20:47

Wow! Thank you very much!
I hope to find out soon the date Dessloch received his award and I will let you know if you are interested. Btw, where did you get the photo?

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Post by USAF1986 » 13 Sep 2003 21:34

Glad to help! The scan is a crop from a photo taken circa July 1944 of Deßloch inspecting Romanian Air Force units on the Eastern Front. It is from David Littlejohn's Foreign Legions of the Third Reich – Volume 4: Poland, the Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania, Free India, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland and Russia (R. James Bender Publishing, San Jose, California, 1987, 1st Edition).

Also, I believe Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring held the Commander Grade with Swords of the Romanian Order of Aeronautical Virtue. Can you confirm that and the award date if known?

Yes, I am very interested in the grades and award dates of the Order of Aeronautical Virtue held by any German generals.

Regards,
Shawn

P.S. An interesting photo of Army Generalmajor Hans Doerr in the Bradley books shows him displaying the following Romanian decorations:

• Order of the Crown of Romania, Commander Grade with Swords
• Romanian Order of Aeronautical Virtue, Officer Grade with Swords

Then Oberst Doerr served as the Chief of the German Liaison Staff with the Romanian 4th Army from 1 October 1942-1 March 1943.
Last edited by USAF1986 on 13 Sep 2003 22:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Victor » 13 Sep 2003 21:58

Hermann Goering was awarded the VA Order Commander class by the Royal Decree No. 2842/ 11 October 1941

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Post by USAF1986 » 13 Sep 2003 22:10

Victor,

Thank you, much appreciated! I would imagine Alexander Löhr, Wolfram Freiherr von Richthofen and Günther Korten were likely holders of the VA Order.

Best regards,
Shawn

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Post by Victor » 21 Sep 2003 21:46

I had problems identifying the Gruppe commanded by the following officers awarded the VA Order (until 1943)

Maj. Alexander von Winterfeldt
Lt. col. Konrad Kolbe
Maj. Wilhelm Priedeburg

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Post by USAF1986 » 21 Sep 2003 23:16

Victor,

From Die Träger Des Ritterkreuzes Des Eisernen Kreuzes, 1939-1945 by Walther-Peer Fellgiebel:

Oberstleutnant der Reserve Alexander von Winterfeldt
Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross: 5 July 1941, Major der Reserve, Kdr. III./JG 77. (Died on 16 May 1942 at Wien-Schwechat while commanding Jagdflieger-Vorschule 4; posthumously promoted to Oberstleutnant der Reserve.)

This link gives von Winterfeldt’s command dates of III./JG 77 from October 1940-2 August 1941 http://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg77.htm

Regards,
Shawn

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Post by USAF1986 » 22 Sep 2003 00:00

Victor,

By chance, did you mean Major Wilhelm von Friedeburg vice Major Wilhelm Priedeburg? If so, he held the follwing commands per this link:

http://www.ww2.dk/air/kampf/kg51.htm

Major Wilhelm von Friedeburg
Commander II./KG 51: 22 June 1941-1 April 1942
Commander KG 51: 4 July 1942-30 November 1942

Regards,
Shawn

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Post by Victor » 22 Sep 2003 06:31

Thanks!

Here is the answer to your question:

Alexander Lohr, Commander class, Royal Decree 2837/ 11 Octomber 1941

Gunther Korten, COmmander class, Royal Decree 2206/ 30 July 1942

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Post by USAF1986 » 24 Sep 2003 01:06

Victor,

RE my earlier post: Now that I look more closely at the photo of Army Generalmajor Hans Doerr, he is not displaying the Officer Grade of the VA Order. It appears he's actually wearing the Knight or Golden Cross of the VA Order – it lacks the wreath. The VA Order is "washed out" in the photo, so it's lacks any detail except for the shape. Maybe the Golden Cross?

Regards,
Shawn

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Post by Victor » 27 Mar 2005 10:41

I have problems identifying a certain Hauptmann Bacsilla. He received the Gold Cross class for the air combats over Dobruja. Given the fact that in the same decree were decorated Guenther Rall, Hermann Graf and Adolf Dickfeld, I presume he was also part of III./JG 52. Can anyone help?

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Post by USAF1986 » 03 Apr 2005 06:52

Victor,

Hello! This sounds like Erwin Bacsila. Here are a few links I found (it appears he only had one “l” in his name):

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/bacsila.html

http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/neil1.htm

Although some of these sources provisionally list Bacsila with 34 victories, he does not appear in Horrido! by Toliver & Constable. Nor is Bacsila listed in Fellgiebel and Scheibert as a recipient of the Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross, German Cross in Gold or the Honor Goblet for Distinguished Achievements in the Air War (Ehrenpokal für Besondere Leistung im Lukftkrieg).

Per the "Luftwaffe 1933-1945" website, Bacsila commanded IV./JG 3 from 5 Jan 1945-17 Feb 1945.

http://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg3.htm

Perhaps some of our Austrian colleagues might have more details on this rather unknown officer.

Best regards,
Shawn

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Post by Victor » 14 Jun 2005 21:03

Thanks, Shawn. I missed the reply in April. :D

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