Armour Logistics Questions

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stcamp
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Armour Logistics Questions

Post by stcamp » 15 Sep 2003 16:55

Hello,

After reading a few books about tanks in WWII I have a few questions.

Say, I am in the III Division as a tank commander and my division just recieved orders for the eastern front.

1. Do all the divisions tanks get loaded on the same train?

2. Recon vehicles etc. get shipped by train also?

3. How about the soldiers? Do they take the same train?

4. Is my tank shipped without fuel and ammo?

5. When I get there how do they get my tank off? Do they just drive the train into the main railstation and drop a ramp? Doesnt this wreck the city streets?

6. Do I hop into my tank and drive it to an assembly area then pick my ammo load?

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Post by Christoph Awender » 15 Sep 2003 17:27

Hello!

1.) No. A entire Panzerdivision needed 102 trains to be transported in 1942.
2.) Which and how many vehicles are transported by train depended of course on the distance. Normally the ARV are also transported with train when the rest of the division is too.
3.) The men go with their vehicles. Who should unload the vehicles when they would not go with them?
4.) Depends on the situation and what kind of mission waits for the unit at the destination. If the division has to get into combat directly of course they try to fuel them before the transport (which reduces the loading capacity of the waggons of course). If sufficient stock and installations are available at the destination the will just have the needed fuel. A division normally is transported with the 1.ammo issue which is on the vehicles and the divisional supply units.
5.) Units are usually unloaded in different locations so in a area. Of course a ramp must be present there and the loading officer has to take care of that.
In war they don´t care about ruining roads.
6.) Again depending on the situation. Normally you go with the 1.supply which you have in the vehicle. If there was no possibility to get the ammo before the transport (time, no stock...) you will be directed to the next "Munitionsausgabestelle" or get the ammo from your regimental supply unit.

hope this helps,
Christoph

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Post by stcamp » 15 Sep 2003 18:23

Christoph Awender wrote:Hello!

1.) No. A entire Panzerdivision needed 102 trains to be transported in 1942.

Wow. As they lost air superiority that must of meant a division might get half of it's tanks?

2.) Which and how many vehicles are transported by train depended of course on the distance. Normally the ARV are also transported with train when the rest of the division is too.

3.) The men go with their vehicles. Who should unload the vehicles when they would not go with them?

I thought they might have supply people who's whole job was to unload, prep and drive to an assembly area.

4.) Depends on the situation and what kind of mission waits for the unit at the destination. If the division has to get into combat directly of course they try to fuel them before the transport (which reduces the loading capacity of the waggons of course). If sufficient stock and installations are available at the destination the will just have the needed fuel. A division normally is transported with the 1.ammo issue which is on the vehicles and the divisional supply units.

I thought they might ship them dry to prevent fire and such if the train was attacked.


5.) Units are usually unloaded in different locations so in a area. Of course a ramp must be present there and the loading officer has to take care of that.

Did they have to build it? Was a ramp built into special cars? Sorry for being dense but I am trying to see this in my head.


In war they don´t care about ruining roads.

Why? Roads are everything. Maybe they had maintenance crews?

6.) Again depending on the situation. Normally you go with the 1.supply which you have in the vehicle. If there was no possibility to get the ammo before the transport (time, no stock...) you will be directed to the next "Munitionsausgabestelle" or get the ammo from your regimental supply unit.

Thank you

hope this helps,
Christoph

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Post by Christoph Awender » 15 Sep 2003 19:27

Hi!

1.) In 1944 the trains a division needed of course got lower because of the many organizational cuts in the units. Didn´t quite get what you mean with "get half of it s tanks"?
Maybe you find these threads interesting:

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2229&highlight=logistics+trains
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=22567&highlight=logistics+trains

3.) The crews did that all on their own. The only specialized personnel and units were the Transportkommandanturen which took care of the organization and the unloading and loading procedure. But they were just officer which supervised everything. Loading, unloading, moving was totally done by the crews.

4.) Of course large stocks were transported in special ammo trains but they didn´belong to a division. Transport space was rare especially in preparation times for larger operations and it would be waste of space if the ammo is unloaded and transported seperate and the vehicles go empty.

5.) In germany the units were of course loaded and unloaded at stations with loading ramps. In russia it was not always possible to find proper unloading stations and such ramps had to be built. But normally larger stations had such ramps. Infantry and normal vehicles didn´t need such ramps.
Here the loading of 5.Pz.Div. vehicles:
Image

6) tanks will of course damage streets but not destroy them. If possible it was avoided to move through cities because of the narrowness etc..
And of course the Wehrmacht had units to build and maintain roads. Strassen-Bau-Bataillone. But they were not organic to a division.

\Christoph

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Post by stcamp » 15 Sep 2003 19:37

Thank you!

Steve

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Post by Christoph Awender » 15 Sep 2003 20:04

Steve here some more photos maybe of interest.

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