Czech crimes?

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Czech crimes?

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 17 Sep 2003 22:46

I found several fragmentary references in Soviet documents that deal with cruelties of Prague populations toward Germans.
From the Report by Commander of 1st Ukrainian Front to the Supreme Commander in regards to situation in Prague – May 12th 1945.
… Multiple acts of cruelty towards Germans – civilians and POWs are noted. I took immediate measures to provided for speedy evacuation of POWs from Prague…
Signed Konev.

From the Report by the Member of the military council of the 4th Guards Tank Army to the Member of the military Council of the 1st Ukrainian Front –in regards to political moods of Czechoslovakian population and its feelings and actions towards Red Army June 4th 1945.
Population of Pargue helped us a great deal in business of clearing the streets from German Panzerfaust-armed soldiers and German tommy-gunners. They were catching Germans in attics and sewers, and executing them at the spot by different means –up to burning several SS personal, who refused to surrender, at the stake…
Signed: Major-General Gusev.

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Benoit Douville
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Post by Benoit Douville » 18 Sep 2003 01:50

Well, The Czech population suffered a lot when Heydrich was the leader and they suffered a lot more after the death of Heydrich, think about the tragedy of Lidice.

I have never heard of the crimes that you mention but if it's true I am not surprise, it was revenge against the Germans.

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Post by David Thompson » 18 Sep 2003 01:52

Oleg -- Thanks for those primary source reports. I've read about a number of Czech partisan atrocities in Prague at the end of the war, but only in secondary sources. I've also seen photographs of a bridge covered with bodies, said to be of German military personnel and civilians. The reaction against Nazi rule appears to have been very strong in the former Reich protectorate.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 18 Sep 2003 06:47

No problem, David.

Peeter
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czech

Post by Peeter » 18 Sep 2003 09:37

20th SS (Estonian) was moving from Silesia to the American frontline via Prague, trying to surrender to Americans on 8th of May. They gave away their weapons by Czech partisan orders. After that murdering and humilating started, also they were later given over to the Red Army (who stopped murders). Part of them were still lucky to escape to the American side.
Prague is very clearly remembered by Estonian veterans as "Czech hell".
Peeter

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Post by michael mills » 18 Sep 2003 11:51

Benoit Douville wrote:
Well, The Czech population suffered a lot when Heydrich was the leader and they suffered a lot more after the death of Heydrich, think about the tragedy of Lidice.
Actually, no.

The Czech population was relatively well treated, and enjoyed much the same conditions of life as the population of Germany proper, for example they had the same level of food rations. Bohemia/Moravia made a very important contribution to German war production, in particular the munitions plants at Skoda, and continued to do so right until the end of the war. The Czech workers at the factories were normal employees, and not conscripted labour; they continued to turn out weapons for the German army until the end of the war.

Heydrich did not treat the Czech population brutally. In fact, he was making great progress in reconciling them to German rule through a two-pronged policy of on the one hand increasing wages and the supply of goods, and on the other of cracking down very hard on black-marketeers, who were very unpopular. At the same time he was utterly ruthless with saboteurs and resisters; for example he executed a number of Czech officials and senior Czech army officers who were plotting to subvert German rule.

It was precisely because of Heydrich's success in cutting the ground from under what little resistance activity there was in Bohemia/Moravia, and of getting the workforce to produce efficiently and abundantly for the German war effort that the Czech Government-in-Exile set out to assassinate him. It was purely for propaganda reasons; the lack of Czech resistance, plus the fact that the Czechs seemed to be working hard for Germany, was severely undermining the credibility of the Czechs in Allied eyes.

Another reason for assassinating Heydrich was to provoke the German authorities to punish the Czech population, and thereby ruin the modus vivendi that Heydrich had created.

The Lidice atrocity in reprisal for the assassination of Heydrich stands out because it was pretty well unique in Bohemia/Moravia. There was very little resistance activity that needed to be suppressed, no large-scale anti-partisan warfare, no civil war between rival political groupings.

The atrocities committed at the very end of the war against both German soldiers and the large German ethnic minority were most likely the work of underground resistance organisations which came out of the woodwork when all the fighting was basically over. The population as a whole did not have any real reason to seek revenge, although they may have stood by and let the resistance activists commit atrocities in order to ingratiate themselves with the new rulers.

The same thing happened in France after the German retreat. The public reprisals against collaborators, including a wave of semi-legal executions, were carried out mainly by Communist activists who emerged once the Germans had left.

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Post by Benoit Douville » 19 Sep 2003 00:00

I completely disagree with you. The Czech population well treated under Heydrich??? Uh? Who are you to make those claims? What is your point?
The Czech population was constantly living under the regime of terror with Heydrich the Reich protector of Bohemia and Moravia.

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Post by michael mills » 19 Sep 2003 01:28

I completely disagree with you. The Czech population well treated under Heydrich??? Uh? Who are you to make those claims? What is your point?
The Czech population was constantly living under the regime of terror with Heydrich the Reich protector of Bohemia and Moravia.
You are free to do so.

But I suggest that you present some evidence to support your claim that the Czech population was constantly living under a reign of terror.

Everything that I have read concerning the background to the assassination of Heydrich suggests that the Czech Government-in-Exile planned and executed it precisely because of his success in getting the Czech population to work efficiently and effectively for the German war effort through his carrot-and-stick policies (ie rewards for those who collaborated with German rule and punishment for those who actively opposed it).

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 19 Sep 2003 01:49

I think he was refering to the "stick" part-Czhechs might have had it easier thatn everbody else but it is still was a stinking deal.

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Post by Dan » 19 Sep 2003 01:53

Great thread.

Ostuf Charlemagne
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Post by Ostuf Charlemagne » 19 Sep 2003 02:00

Mills is right,i was going to write the same,thanks to him to spare me the work ! It is well know that after the Czech upraising,german women were tied naked in the streets as an invitation to anybody to rape them,the ''tendons'' - i don't know the english word,maybe our Quebecquois reader may translate from french- of the germans prisonners were cut,and so on.....
Now to our Quebecquois friend,if you find legitime the regenge against germans,so we may say that estonian revenge against jews who as a whole helped soviet invasors was legitime too......

Interesting ....

Ostuf Charlemagne
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Post by Ostuf Charlemagne » 19 Sep 2003 02:04

Yes,Czechs were well treated ounder the Heydrich's administration,up to the point they enjoyed a higher style of life than in Germany (good salaries,food plenty available and so on...)

Douville ,i suggest you try to study better the facts of WW2,and not by watching Hollywood movies ....

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Post by David Thompson » 19 Sep 2003 02:04

Ostuf Charlemagne -- I think the expression you're looking for is "hamstrung;" the practice is called "hamstringing."

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Benoit Douville
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Post by Benoit Douville » 19 Sep 2003 02:29

Charlemagne,

I suggest you to write your real name instead of an alias if you want to be considerated as a serious member...

Now the facts. The years of German occupation were marked by brutal oppression. With the outbreak and escalation of World War II the German administration had less and less reason to moderate their actions. Under governor Reinhard Heydrich things were worst, German was to be the language of education and administration, the Czech language and identity were to be exterminated. People regarded racially unfit for Germanification were sent to the concentration camps, one of which, Theresintdt was established on Czech territory. Also, many Czechs were sent to Germany to works has forced labour. It was a total Germanification of Bohemia and Moravia.

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Ostuf Charlemagne
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Post by Ostuf Charlemagne » 19 Sep 2003 03:51

The problem is that i'm not seriously politically correct......

Besides it is not really serious to says things who are not thruth.....the czechs were really well treated by the Heydrich's administration....try to find SERIOUS testimonies of the time.....

Seriousness or lack of seriousness just don't change the facts :wink:

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