Faked photos of Einsatzgruppe atrocities

[Ostuf Charlemagne]

TO THE MODERATOR (AND SOME OTHERS LIKE 4LAOM):Here we goes...

my sources :
point 1 - Eisatzgruppen,counter-intelligence:Already answered by Mills,thanks to him...Now ,if you want more details about their task with counter-intelligence,i suggest you read:
-''The Gestapo and SS Manual'' translated by Carl Hammer,Paladin,1996.
and if you read german:
-''Die Truppe des Weltanschauungskrieges-Die Einsatzgruppen des Sicherheitspolizei und des SD 1938-1942'' by Helmuth Krausnick and Hans-Heinrich Wilhelm,Stuttgart,1981.

point2.Everybody knows the germans were welcomed as liberators in the Baltic and Ukrainia,i'm ASTONISHED you don't...if you want i can scann a lot of pictures showing german troops cheered by population,presented with milk,flowers,etc...How can you explain that 10% of the whole latvian population joined the Waffen-SS ? Please look in your own forum,the OMAIKAATSE,etc....Stalin invaded the baltic countries in 1940,resistance movements flourished,(Brothers of the Forrests),and fought until 1952 with the help of the population ,helped too by british MI-5 (the cold war had begun) and british submarines evacuated some of them in the 50s...Same in Ukrainia (120000 volunteered when the forming of the Galizien SS div.) where they fought until 1948...a special NKVD division was tasked to erase the villages who provided them with food,etc...like the germans did 7 years ago....In his real memories,Eichmann relates how the men of einsatzkommando of Standartenfuehrer Jaeger had difficulties to keep away lots of baltic women who stopped their way,trying to kiss them .
Point3: real memories of Eichmann,op.cit.
point 4 : real memoroes of Eichmann,op.cit.
point 5 : This information was disclosed in the french newspaper RIVAROL,in the 90's...Too sad i didn't keep the report,but it is not my guilt if somes are not on top of the info.Besides i already says this info was HIDDEN by all major news medias.Now,who controls the world medias ? (I'm talking about an ethnic group who is neither swedish,nor swahili...)
And now on other (new) points :
point 6 : Remember that from the start,the III Reich was in a SELF-DEFENSE position against jewry.(You may not think so,but it's irrelevant since the Nazis did...)
In March 1933,one month and a half after Hitler took power democratically,the Jewish world congress called all the jews to boycott the germans goods.At this time it was no repression against jews in Germany.
(SEE PICTURE- article of Daily Express,March 24th,1933)
Then Chaim Weiszman,from Jewish World congress DECLARED PUBLICLY WAR ON GERMANY IN JULY 1939 TWO MONTHS BEFORE WW2 STARTED !
After that all jewish were considered ''ennemies'' by the germans.

(By the way that's just what the islamics did against the USA with the declarations of Bin Laden and the bombing of the towers..The US answer ?
they bombed Kabul -killing innocent civilians- and invaded Iraq.)

The answer of the germans ? They formed Einsatzgruppen.Even if those commited atrocities,like in Poland, (or like the US army when they fired at civilians mobs in Somalia),most of their duties where normal police-military duties,like combing rear-guard etc....and elaborate lists of locals opponents wich is an intelligence task.

By the way,do you remember how the germans parked the jews in the Varsovy Ghetto ? ( to evitate formation of partisans in their rear.)
Well,the US do the same today in the USA: the indian reserves.Where the indians must live with an indian bank,an indian police,etc...and when the indians revolted in the 70's,the FBI and police shot at them.
With a difference : the ghetto of Varsovia was during the war and the jews are not europeans.The US govt.do that in 2003,in peace time,and the indians are the real american....and where nearly exterminated by them,even Western Movies makes a glory of that....how do you say NACHT UND NEBEL in Navajo ????????

OOUCH ! Facts are hard,aren't they ?

point 7 : With these extremists declarations,the jewish leaders,(safe in Geneva and New York),wanted to promove help form banks and countries and to promove sionism within the jews with one goal in mind:the forming of the state of Israel after the war.Was the state of Israel formed in 1948,yes or no ??

point 8:I do not justify atrocities,but i think there was some reasons for the forming of the Einsatzgruppen.(What will YOU do if you were the commander in charge of security of a rear guard ? How will you treat the ones who provide help to non-uniformed partisans who shot your soldiers at the back ?? Think a minute before to answer....)
And,yes,i do believe that the number of their victims was over-exagerated
BECAUSE :

a)Most of the well-known pictures of Nazi atrocities in Russia are FAKES.
They were made in snowy ground in Canada by ''section M'' of BSC (British Security Coordination. In fact the british intelligence in USA,who in WW2 helped to form the OSS,ancester of CIA:The BSC was ounder William Stephenson,the man who will inspire Ian Flemming for his novel-hero James Bond 007.No kidding.)
Section M was commanded by Eric Maschwitz,a jew,agent G-106 of MI-6.
This special forgery camp was near Toronto.They even had a tailor shop to fabricate germans uniforms...Lots of those pictures were speaded to jewish US medias so to fight isolationnism and helps F.D.Roosevelt to lead the USA to war.By November 26th,1941,Maschwitz declared to President Roosevelt,:''My service may easily and regurlarly deliver nazi atrocities pictures.We made them in Canada.''

OOUCH ! Again,facts are hard,right ?

(Sources: ''Desperate Deception.British Covert Operations in the USA''
by Thomas e.Mahl. available at Brassey's. 22883 Quicksilver Drive
Dulles,Virginia,20166, USA
and ''Aventures de l'Histoire Hors-Serie 6'' March 2003,editions DIDRO
France)
Besides,think: Will YOU take pictures if you were mass murdering people?
(Logic.... when you put logic,propaganda fall apart...)

b) SS general Nebe: Commander of Einsatzgruppe A.He was an antinazi,conspirating against Hitler since before the war....strangely,his unit registered the most victims.Some says he took this oportunity to kill more people than needed above all people who were not jews nor communists,to provocate an antinazi feeling among the baltic population .

c) SS general Ohlendorf: He declared at Nurnberg trial that the Einsatzgruppen commanders exagerated the number of victims just to looks good at Berlin,saying they wasted lots of ennemies.

d) SS general Von dem Bach - Zelewski : it is well known he dealed with his judges at Nurnberg for his life.He testified against his comrades in so much an exagerated way that he became a problem for the prosecutors,being known as an ''over-communicative witness''.Once,Goering stood up in the box ,yelling him :''Lier ! Traitor !''
When the defense demostrated Bach was lying,the prosecutors asked for his removal.(Sources: ''Derrota Mundial'' by Salvador Borrego,Mexico.16 edition.1965.)

point 9: The allied DID the same politic in occupied Germany.(SEE PICTURE) A french poster for their occupation zone in Germany ,May 1st,1945,announcing that for each sabotage or french soldier killed,they will execute 50 hostages...i.e. innocent civilians!

Point 10 ( the last ! I'm tired !)
On Sunday Sept.3rd,1939...Two days after the beginning of the war ,the poles slaughtered 60000 germans civilians (volksdeutschen who lived in Poland).The corpses of 15000 were found later,but 45000 remains missing.Only in Bromberg (Bydgoszcz in Polish) a bunch of polish soldiers and cops slaughtered 6000 germans civilians in what was to be known as the BLUTTENSONNTAG. Women were raped and sadistically murdered,babies drowned in a river,hundreds machine gunned...at this moment a decent man,a polish cavalry captain,appeared and tried to stop the killings...as soon as he lefted ,the germans civilians who managed to fled were pursued by trucks and executed...the last ones to die were a disabled 20 old girl and a 3 years old child called Erwin Prochnau.Their corpses were thrown in a well and on top the body of a dead dog was thrown...a german shepperd. No kidding.
The german troops who discovered the massacre were astonished ! The United Press was invited to take pictures and sent his reporter ,Mr.Oechsner.But in the USA ,the Roosevelt administration forbidded the press to says a word.After that a special meeting of RSHA executives took place in Berlin where SS general and police criminalist Arthur Nebe explained the facts and displayed the pictures and some remains.... One of those officers wrote later :
'' I feel the childs on these pictures like if they were my own sons.Those murdered young mothers were pieces of the future of my people...
The murders commited on this bloody Sunday in Bromberg took off the hypocrit mask of our ennemies,showing us the deep hatred they profess against us .After that ,no one of us will feel mercy !''

A Gestapo Officer called Adolf Eichmann....

Thanks to the allies,the chain of Horror was started....

(Sources: ''Yo,Adolf Eichmann'' real memories wroten in liberty in Argentina,Editorial Planeta,Barcelona,Spain,1982)

[David Thompson]

Ostuf Charlemagne -- It looks to me like you're saying that the holocaust didn't happen and the evidence is fake, but if the holocaust did happen, it was justified and lots of other countries are as bad or worse than the Germans. Is that an accurate summary of your post?

[David Thompson]

Ostuf Charlemagne --

You said: "point 7 : With these extremists declarations,the jewish leaders,(safe in Geneva and New York),wanted to promove help form banks and countries and to promove sionism within the jews with one goal in mind:the forming of the state of Israel after the war.Was the state of Israel formed in 1948,yes or no ??"

So what?

You continued: "point 8:I do not justify atrocities,but i think there was some reasons for the forming of the Einsatzgruppen.(What will YOU do if you were the commander in charge of security of a rear guard ? How will you treat the ones who provide help to non-uniformed partisans who shot your soldiers at the back ?? Think a minute before to answer....)"

You may be surprised to know that the German Army had their own rear area commands (Korueck, Oberfeldkommandantur, Feldkommandantur, etc.) already in place, manned with security battalions. The German armed forces had their own counter-intelligence units (the Abwehr) and field police. The Einsatzgruppen of the SS were unnecessary for any other task in the rear areas except the murder of civilians.

You went on to say: "And,yes,i do believe that the number of their victims was over-exagerated BECAUSE :

"a)Most of the well-known pictures of Nazi atrocities in Russia are FAKES.
They were made in snowy ground in Canada by ''section M'' of BSC (British Security Coordination. In fact the british intelligence in USA,who in WW2 helped to form the OSS,ancester of CIA:The BSC was ounder William Stephenson,the man who will inspire Ian Flemming for his novel-hero James Bond 007.No kidding.)
Section M was commanded by Eric Maschwitz,a jew,agent G-106 of MI-6.
This special forgery camp was near Toronto.They even had a tailor shop to fabricate germans uniforms...Lots of those pictures were speaded to jewish US medias so to fight isolationnism and helps F.D.Roosevelt to lead the USA to war.By November 26th,1941,Maschwitz declared to President Roosevelt,:''My service may easily and regurlarly deliver nazi atrocities pictures.We made them in Canada.'

OOUCH ! Again,facts are hard,right ?

(Sources: ''Desperate Deception.British Covert Operations in the USA''
by Thomas e.Mahl. available at Brassey's. 22883 Quicksilver Drive
Dulles,Virginia,20166, USA and ''Aventures de l'Histoire Hors-Serie 6'' March 2003,editions DIDRO France)
Besides,think: Will YOU take pictures if you were mass murdering people? (Logic.... when you put logic,propaganda fall apart...)"

"Again,facts are hard,right ?" Your facts are hard to confirm, perhaps.

I did a Google search for "Eric Maschwitz," "Eric Maschwitz and MI-6," "Eric Maschwitz and Roosevelt," and "Eric Maschwitz and BSC." I found nothing to confirm your lurid story that "Most of the well-known pictures of Nazi atrocities in Russia are FAKES" and that "Lots of those pictures were speaded to jewish US medias so to fight isolationnism and helps F.D.Roosevelt to lead the USA to war." As far as the Google search engine is concerned, Eric Maschwitz's (1901-1969) main contribution to the war effort in WWII was writing screenplays and songs like "Goodbye, Mr. Chips" and "A Nightingale Sang In Berkeley Square." See, for example:

http://www.musical-theatre.net/html/com ... hwitz.html

http://entertainment.msn.com/celebs/cel ... b&c=282071

http://www.nodanw.com/biographies/eric_maschwitz.htm

[David Thompson]

Ostuf Charlemagne -- Thank you for the courteous reply -- more later.

[Kunnar Kesküla]

I did a Google search for "Eric Maschwitz," "Eric Maschwitz and MI-6," "Eric Maschwitz and Roosevelt," and "Eric Maschwitz and BSC." I found nothing to confirm your lurid story that "Most of the well-known pictures of Nazi atrocities in Russia are FAKES" and that "Lots of those pictures were speaded to jewish US medias so to fight isolationnism and helps F.D.Roosevelt to lead the USA to war." As far as the Google search engine is concerned, Eric Maschwitz's (1901-1969) main contribution to the war effort in WWII was writing screenplays and songs like "Goodbye, Mr. Chips" and "A Nightingale Sang In Berkeley Square." See, for example:

http://www.musical-theatre.net/html/com ... hwitz.html

http://entertainment.msn.com/celebs/cel ... b&c=282071

http://www.nodanw.com/biographies/eric_maschwitz.htm

Mr.Thompson
For some reason i guess that work orders of intelligence officers are not uploaded to internet. That you did'nt find any evidence in Google did'nt show nothing against Ostuf's words.

[Panzermahn]

Ostuf Charlemagne and David Thompson,

For full report and atrocities pictures of the Bromberg Bloody Sunday, the massacre of ethnic Germans in Poland, please got ot this link

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/polish_atrocities.htm


Besides, there are some points,


Germany must Perish (Theodore Kaufmann, a jew wrote for the destruction of Germany and sterilization of the german people)

Morgenthau Plan (Henry Morgenthau, design a barbaric plan for the occupation of Germany)

Jewish declaration of economic war on Germany (as shown by Ostuf Charlemagne)

Gustave Gilbert (Nuremberg pyschologist for the nuremberg defendents, a jew)

David Thompson says;

Besides,think: Will YOU take pictures if you were mass murdering people? (Logic.... when you put logic,propaganda fall apart...)"

I hardly find this illogical considering you took the bureaucratic mindset and mentality of the German officials. Then tell me, why does the Einsatzgruppen A, B, C, D recorded all their victims the killed and properly documented them? Commander Paul Blobbel of Einsatzgruppen C recorded that their men killed 30,000 Jews in JUST 2 days in kiev and this was taken account as an evidence in the Einsatzgruppen Trials.
Besides, not just the Einsatzgruppen who recorded their victims who were killed but in WW2, you find that most of the evidence of Holocaust came from the german themselves who recorded the victims they killed in WW2 especially Jews. (concentration camps also kept detailed documents of showing how many jews were killed) So it is perfectly logical that the Germans would take photographs of people they would killed to document it.

[Peter H]

The German attitude to service personnel carrying cameras and recording their war experiences was more relaxed than the Allies.Hence the visual documentation of certain German atrocities are well known,in most cases photos taken by passing Wehrmacht not involved in the killings.

As a contrast in the US Marines in 1942 it was an offense to carry a personal camera on active operations,though sometimes a brave soul or two did smuggle one around.

[Dan]

Interesting, and thanks for that.

[michael mills]

My opinion:

It seems to me quite possible that British Military Intelligence (MI-6) was involved in faking photographic evidence of German atrocities. That is a subject that would need to be investigated fully.

However, if the allegation of British faking of photographic evidence is substantiated, that does not mean that all accounts of German atrocities are false, or that all photographic evidence of such atrocities is faked.

[Germania]

Moulded -- I've seen the photograph of the Japanese officer and the B-25 and Corsair formation before, but this is the first time I've heard that there was something fake about it. Where did you get that information?

David,
I know a US Marine veteran,who was based in Australia,and have discussed this pic with him---he recalls seeing this pic during or after the war and mentioned,that at least among the serving armed forces members,no-one believed it was legit.In my opinion the background aircraft have been superimposed onto the photo,and not the other way around.

Regards,
Moulded

Back on topic even the 'revisionist' historian David Irving does not deny the magnitude of the Einsatzgruppen crimes.

David Irving isn´t an revisionist historian he has another point of view than the PC historians but I think he is well respected and write very good and helpful books!

[Marcus]

David Irving isn´t an revisionist historian he has another point of view than the PC historians but I think he is well respected and write very good and helpful books!

He isn't "well respected", he used to be regarded as a good historian and his eariler books are generally regarded as very good, but not anymore.

/Marcus

[Germania]

This is your personal opinion not mine!

[Marcus]

This is your personal opinion not mine!

No, your use of the term "well respected" implies that Irving is well respected by researches in general and not only by yourself, I simply corrected that error.

/Marcus

[Germania]

This is your personal opinion not mine!

No, your use of the term "well respected" implies that Irving is well respected by researches in general and not only by yourself, I simply corrected that error.

/Marcus

Oh I think I´m not the only who respect his work okay you´re statement is not wrong about the correction but I think he is well respected by much people which are interessted in history!

[David Thompson]

The posts on the subject of the allegedly fake photograph of a Japanese POW directing a US airstrike now have a thread of their own, at:

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=34617