Iron Cross Fakes?

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Macmedal
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Iron Cross Fakes?

Post by Macmedal » 17 Mar 2002 01:13

I have recently purchased an Iron Cross 2nd Class and I was convinced it was original. It has a three part construction with a magnetic centre section. All the measurements seem ok 44mm across etc. It came in an LDO box with a maroon velvet base and cream satin lid liner. Again I was sure it was an original box

However it is makers marked 333 which unfortunately I could not read as I did not have a magnifying glass with me. Is this a fake because naively I did not think that Iron Crosses 2nd Class would be reproduced to such a high quality. KC yes but EK2??

Any help would be appreciated as I would not like to sell on a reproduction. I have heard mention of french reproductions is this possibly one? :(

Nick M

RF HONTS
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Hello

Post by RF HONTS » 17 Mar 2002 02:05

Hello,

A few years ago your logice would be correct...however now EVERYTHING is being reproduced. If you could post photos I would be able to tell more, however I don't believe 333 would be a correct marking.

Roger

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Macmedal
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Post by Macmedal » 17 Mar 2002 03:11

Thanks I have attached link to pictures for further help.
Last edited by Macmedal on 25 Apr 2003 23:53, edited 1 time in total.

Tom O'Neill
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The hayday of fakes is long past

Post by Tom O'Neill » 02 Apr 2002 22:18

I was very lucky to go to school in Germany in the late 50s. Anyone who thinks the hay day of the bogus badge has not seen the traffic in badges during that time in Germany.
The Iron Cross was king everyone sunning themselves on the banks of the Neckar in Heidelburg was approached by a student hawking his dads Iron Cross. It was that magic time when the troubles of the war faded and the mostly imaginary heroics were starting to form a more concrete facade.
I remember my first experience of a fellow student selling me his dads Iron Cross, I became suspicious when I saw him selling a few tourists "His dads Iron Cross" We became good friends until he passed in 1989 .
Then I realized I was approached by at least a dozen students all with their "dads iron cross"
It was a real cottage industry anyone with the ability to make inexpensive costume jewelry was knocking out some sort of war bobble.
One family I visited had baskets of Knights Crosses and First Class Crosses all over the house. Then I found DAD he was in a shop in back of the house, You guess it there he was making a 'DADS IRON CROSS'
In the 1960s I sent for and sold thousands of these at the gun shows all through the southern states. They were a side line but it was nothing to sell 10 to 20 at a show
I would get $10.00 to $20. 00 each. I paid $3.00 each when I purchased 100 or more
Only once did someone question if it was made before the end of the war. I told him it was made a month ago but he told me it was before the end of the war as it would attract a magnet. I never agrue with an expert! Tom

WCSTUMP
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WHAT A INTRIGUING TALE

Post by WCSTUMP » 02 Apr 2002 22:36

If everyone had a "Iron Cross Daddy" one would not have to phony up the Blue Max and make cuff links of little Iron Crosses. One learns early in the 60's how to profit well in the 2000's it seems. Being the off spring of "Daddy", selling known fakes to the unsuspecting people at gun shows, what them would you be classified as" Maybe a "FAKE SELLING DADDY", OR "A FAKE MONGER DADDY"? Maybe just a "FOUR FLUSNING FAKE DADDY"?

This is just my humble opinion and I say anyone who knowingly sells a fake for original is one crooked "FAKE DADDY" of the first order and to brag about it on a public forum is appauling. Maybe the F. B. I. should be notified or have the Pinkerton Detective Agency look into this as Fraud is a crime. The all seeing eye of justice watches for FAKE DADDYS.

Tom O'Neill Post subject: I manufacture Iron Cross Cufflinks & Blue Max

Tom O'Neill
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Perhaps time has dimmed you memory

Post by Tom O'Neill » 02 Apr 2002 23:08

Perhaps time has dimmed you memory, Was it not you who purchased the Order Of the Eagle from me at the gun show (1964)in South Carolina along with the Iron Crosses

WCSTUMP
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I'VE BOUGHT MORE ITEMS THAT CARTER HAD PILLS

Post by WCSTUMP » 02 Apr 2002 23:18

I sure wish I could place a face with yourr name. I like to know ever FAKE DADDY so as to keep track of them for old time sake.

Tom O'Neill
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Post by Tom O'Neill » 02 Apr 2002 23:21

I remember you had a magazine you wanted me to advertise in

WCSTUMP
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SORRY, BUT THAT WAS JOHNNY

Post by WCSTUMP » 02 Apr 2002 23:23

You memory is faiding. that was my friend Johnny.

Tom O'Neill
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Post by Tom O'Neill » 02 Apr 2002 23:28

The two of you were in on it together and it only ran 2 or three months
NO?

WCSTUMP
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WE WERE INTERNATIONAL TRAVELERS AND PARTNERS

Post by WCSTUMP » 02 Apr 2002 23:59

Now that you know me, why are you so vindictive towards me? Professional jealously?

Tom O'Neill
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Post by Tom O'Neill » 03 Apr 2002 00:29

I have made only two posts one to advertise my Iron Cross and blue Max Cufflinks and one telling you that you have long stories like WW2 comics. All the rest is your ramblings. Show me where I said anything nasty to you. You just cannot stand anyone pointing out that you do not know what your talking about. You lose all your creditability with the wild vulgar e mails. If you were secure in your beliefs of your sources you would no get so upset. I made a lot of money with the German items. I see so much sold as the real thing. My flags alone I see at every Military show. I find it difficult to tell anyone that was made in 1968 in Jersey City. It is like attacking their religion. Perhaps you take yourself too seriously

WCSTUMP
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NOT NASTY? COME ON.

Post by WCSTUMP » 03 Apr 2002 00:45

Well you are one funny fellow. What I say I can back up with fact. Your problem is that you can't stand criticism when you pointed out for you crooked ways. I have not published the first "vulgar" post and what I told you in my PRIVATE emails you can take it or leave it. At least I don't threaten going to the F. B. I. because I hurt your tender little crooked feelings. Also I didn't get on the forum making a monkey's out of myself attacking you. you have openly done a good job of that by your own words. Your opinion of my knowledge is just that, an opinion. You have the right to make that opinion, but I have the right to tell you what you are in a private email and not on this forum. You know what I said you could do with your opinion don't you. You take it, wrap it real tight, put a little grease on it and , well.... you recall the place where I told you could put it. Publicly, you come on this forum, attack me and don't call it nasty? Well publicly I call you an admitted fake monger and agitator par excellent. Therefore, keep your opinions about me PRIVATE as they have nothing to do with Third Reich awards.

Tom O'Neill wrote:I have made only two posts one to advertise my Iron Cross and blue Max Cufflinks and one telling you that you have long stories like WW2 comics. All the rest is your ramblings. Show me where I said anything nasty to you. You just cannot stand anyone pointing out that you do not know what your talking about. You lose all your creditability with the wild vulgar e mails. If you were secure in your beliefs of your sources you would no get so upset. I made a lot of money with the German items. I see so much sold as the real thing. My flags alone I see at every Military show. I find it difficult to tell anyone that was made in 1968 in Jersey City. It is like attacking their religion. Perhaps you take yourself too seriously

WCSTUMP
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FOR MACMEDAL

Post by WCSTUMP » 03 Apr 2002 02:09

Macmedal the only think I question about youR item is the case. Today the fakers are making them so good that it is near impossible to distinguish from the W.W.II originals. As far as quality found in the production of the Iron Cross 2nd, it was just as good as a Knights Cross. It was regarded as a high honor from the time it was re-instituted by Hitler in 1939 until the end of the war. Regardless of the "Daddy's Iron Crosses", many old time firms sold off their existing stocks after the war and they have been reproduced then for as long. Experience and a trained eye can spot the fakes. The so called "Daddy's Iron Cross Factories" never existed except in the mind of an illusionist, a fake monger or a student of Hans Christian Anderson. As my favorite person of the past, Robert Ripley, always said, "BELIEVE IT OT NOT."

R. J. Kimmel
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Post by R. J. Kimmel » 03 Apr 2002 14:27

If my memory serves me correct, I believe that the government, office I am not certain of, placed identical strict controls on the producers of I.Cs and K.Cs, as to their construction. I'm not certain, however I also believe that the master dies were produced by only one firm, then distributed to the other licensed manufacturing firms. This was not the case in the productin of other medals and badges.

Richard


KILROY [retired] WAS HERE
Last edited by R. J. Kimmel on 04 Apr 2002 20:08, edited 1 time in total.

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