Dresden Bombing? & Post Liberation Eastern Euro gas Cham

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ravensclaw
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Dresden Bombing? & Post Liberation Eastern Euro gas Cham

Post by ravensclaw » 10 Oct 2003 15:51

I had an interesting conversation today from the son of a SS veteran who served both on the Eastern and Western Fronts.

The first interesting point brought up was the bombing of Dresden and why was this done???

An answer that was proposed by this guy was that it was a warning to the Soviet Union that once Germany was defeated the Western Allies were not to be messed with.

I have read on the suffering that occured from that bombing and that it was both unnecessary and vile. But what I do want to know...is there any truth to the above statement i.e. motives for the attack?

The other issue had to do with the liberated concentration camps in Eastern Europe. It was said that the crematoriums were also used by the Russians for jews and political prisoners and possibly others. This was acknowledged as a very second hand account but it did intrigue me. Is there any truth to this?

My knowledge of war crime material is limited beyond the basics e.g. holocaust; so if these questions are far left field :oops: , but any feedback would be appreciated.

Cheers

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Germania
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Post by Germania » 14 Oct 2003 19:18

The bombing of Dresden has no tactical sense it was pure terror in the last days of an won war! It should break the german people nothing more nothing less!

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Post by redcoat » 14 Oct 2003 22:32

Germania wrote:The bombing of Dresden has no tactical sense it was pure terror in the last days of an won war! !

A war is never won until either the enemy admits it is and surrenders, or one side totally overun's it's enemies territory, neither had taken place at the time of the bombing.
Dresden was bombed simply because the Russians had requested the Western Allies to do so, in order to disrupt the Germans lines of communications on the eastern front .

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Post by En Taro Tassadar! » 14 Oct 2003 23:12

in order to disrupt the Germans lines of communications on the eastern front .


Amazingly other airforces have done this sort of operations before and none of them went as far as incinerating a defenseless city and its population. :|

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Post by David Thompson » 15 Oct 2003 00:53

ravensclaw -- The Dresden bombing raids, and the supposed reasons for them, have been discussed a number of times in this section of the forum and elsewhere. Interested readers can find some of the most recent of these threads at:

Churchill & Harris Terror Raids
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=29691

Dresden Photos
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=27506

Debate over UK WWII strategic bombing
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=25898

Terror bombing -- The Nazis started it
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=25592

Churchill's warcrimes
http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=25091

You asked:
The other issue had to do with the liberated concentration camps in Eastern Europe. It was said that the crematoriums were also used by the Russians for jews and political prisoners and possibly others. This was acknowledged as a very second hand account but it did intrigue me. Is there any truth to this?


Some time ago, another poster raised that same rumor in connection with concentration camp gas chambers, but I've never seen any information or first-hand account which verified the story. It is a fact that the Soviet forces imprisoned a large number of German POWs and civilians in the former concentration camps under their control. The mortality rates at some of these camps were substantial, and from time to time mass graves of these people have been discovered in eastern Germany. I have not seen any accounts of the Soviet forces using camp crematoria to dispose of the bodies.

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Germania
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Post by Germania » 15 Oct 2003 06:21

redcoat wrote:
Germania wrote:The bombing of Dresden has no tactical sense it was pure terror in the last days of an won war! !

A war is never won until either the enemy admits it is and surrenders, or one side totally overun's it's enemies territory, neither had taken place at the time of the bombing.
Dresden was bombed simply because the Russians had requested the Western Allies to do so, in order to disrupt the Germans lines of communications on the eastern front .

Really and so it is an must to kill thousands of civilists to interrupt the communication line to the eastern front!? You will say the war was open in februar 1945 and wehrmacht has an real chance to win this war?????

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Post by redcoat » 15 Oct 2003 12:15

Germania wrote:
redcoat wrote:
Germania wrote:The bombing of Dresden has no tactical sense it was pure terror in the last days of an won war! !

Really and so it is an must to kill thousands of civilists to interrupt the communication line to the eastern front!?

The civilians were what in modern terms is described as collateral damage
You will say the war was open in februar 1945 and wehrmacht has an real chance to win this war?????

No, but they were still fighting like there was. If they didn't want to be bombed, they should have surrendered.

If you pick a fight with somebody, don't get upset if they hit you harder than you hit them

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Post by Cara » 15 Oct 2003 13:50

redcoat wrote:
Germania wrote:
redcoat wrote:
Germania wrote:The bombing of Dresden has no tactical sense it was pure terror in the last days of an won war! !

Really and so it is an must to kill thousands of civilists to interrupt the communication line to the eastern front!?

The civilians were what in modern terms is described as collateral damage


Does that logic also justify 11th September?

Or bombing of London, now when we are at it?

Bombing of Dresden was as horrible and unjustified as either of these two, and to be precise, quite frankly it was actually more horrible than either of those mentioned above. Atleast in my eyes.

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Germania
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Post by Germania » 15 Oct 2003 14:46

redcoat wrote:
Germania wrote:
redcoat wrote:
Germania wrote:The bombing of Dresden has no tactical sense it was pure terror in the last days of an won war! !

Really and so it is an must to kill thousands of civilists to interrupt the communication line to the eastern front!?

The civilians were what in modern terms is described as collateral damage
You will say the war was open in februar 1945 and wehrmacht has an real chance to win this war?????

No, but they were still fighting like there was. If they didn't want to be bombed, they should have surrendered.

If you pick a fight with somebody, don't get upset if they hit you harder than you hit them


But the end was in sight and so it was an crime because it has no real influence in the end of the war! Your opinion tell me the same like I want to fight with some one and kill first his mother to hit him! A really dump point of view!

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Post by David Thompson » 15 Oct 2003 15:38

The issue under discussion here is the motive for the allied bombing of Dresden. Emotional outbursts are of little help in answering this question. Does anyone have any official documents, memoirs of the participants, or similar material which might add to the collective knowledge of the readers as to why the city was bombed?

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Post by Dan » 15 Oct 2003 15:57

I wonder if we'll ever know. I remember my mom telling me it was in revenge of Coventry, and you can add that to a Soviet directed object lesson, homicidal rage on Churchill's part, sadistic tendencies at bomber command, disrupting German communication lines, terrorism, honest desire to end the war soon, etc... I would think that the reasons were a combination of the above reasons, and to make it more complex the combination of reasons were different in the minds of the few people who were involved in authorizing the raid.

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Post by Germania » 15 Oct 2003 17:17

Revenge for Coventry is I think an myth because it is looking for apples and getting eggs! :|

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Post by Caldric » 15 Oct 2003 17:53

I think it is just as simple as the fact that this was the way war was waged in WWII, by all sides. Cities were targets, simple as that. Dresden is no different then all the other cities laid to waste by the war. Germany did much worse to cities all over Europe, the allies did the same to German and Japanese cities. It is an emotional issue but it is just the way it was, communication or just killing the enemy, in WWII all civilians military or otherwise were the enemy. It is the result of total war and we may pray to never see its likes again. I find it rather contradictory to pretend Dresden was any worse then Stalingrad, Warsaw, Leningrad, Moscow, London et al.

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Post by KalaVelka » 15 Oct 2003 18:55

Germany did much worse to cities all over Europe

Could you point me those cities?

Kasper

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Post by John W » 15 Oct 2003 19:00

Caldric has a point here. Was Dresden any worse, than say the bombing of Stalingrad? The 40,000+ civilians killed in the first raids alone? But we could go on and on in this manner.

I think however, Mr. Thompson also has a point in the motivation for this bombing. Who knows, maybe it really was an ernest attempt at screwing German communications and transportation links on the Ostfront. Perhaps during the bombing run, things got screwed and a lot of bombs fell in the wrong places.

And please, lets face it: bombing civilian targets in those days, if not condoned wasn't harshly condemned.

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