13 Million Died in Death Camps?

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
User avatar
Max2Cam
Member
Posts: 129
Joined: 30 Nov 2002 17:49
Location: Nord Amerika

13 Million Died in Death Camps?

Post by Max2Cam » 04 Nov 2003 00:26

There was an interesting segment on National Public Radio yesterday about a survivor visiting the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C. The narrator said that "13 million" people died in the Nazi "death camps."

I just wonder where that number comes from and how accurate it is?
===========
National Socialism is really a way of life [eine Weltanschauung]. It always begins at the beginning and lays new foundations for life. That is why our task is so difficult, but also so beautiful.... -- Dr. Goebbels

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23675
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Post by David Thompson » 04 Nov 2003 01:56

Max2Cam -- Did you ask them (the NPR folks)?
Last edited by David Thompson on 04 Nov 2003 02:00, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Oleg Grigoryev
Member
Posts: 5051
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 20:06
Location: Russia

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 04 Nov 2003 02:00

I belive the quote went somethink like 13 million died in Nazi camps - half of them are Jews.

Dan
Financial supporter
Posts: 8429
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 14:06
Location: California

Post by Dan » 04 Nov 2003 02:05

oleg wrote:I belive the quote went somethink like 13 million died in Nazi camps - half of them are Jews.
Then that would be worthy of file 13.

Current numbers are about 3 million in camps of all causes for Jews, so the figure if based on this number is exaggerated by at least two fold.

User avatar
Mostowka
Member
Posts: 178
Joined: 10 Oct 2003 00:18
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden.

Post by Mostowka » 04 Nov 2003 02:15

Are there any accurate figures for Gypsies, Poles, Russians, Communists ? I´m guessing that the figure didn´t exceed 2-4 million but it´s interesting that you don´t hear that number mentioned that often, maybee because it was marginal ?

User avatar
Benoit Douville
Financial supporter
Posts: 3184
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 01:13
Location: Montréal

Post by Benoit Douville » 04 Nov 2003 02:41

Mostowka,

You don't hear it often because they were not Jews... And the Jews always remind us of the genocide and they are right but the fact is that they control a lot of the media... We should not forget what happened to the other nationality, Poles, Gypsies, Ukrainians and all of the others who were murdered by the Nazi. Do you remember the genocide of the Armenian commited by the Turks during World War I?

Regards

Mito
Member
Posts: 26
Joined: 19 Mar 2002 21:27
Location: Brazil

Post by Mito » 04 Nov 2003 02:51

No way.

User avatar
RACPISA
Member
Posts: 836
Joined: 27 Apr 2003 18:21
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

radio program

Post by RACPISA » 04 Nov 2003 02:58

It's not totally uncommon for narrators in shows to make mistakes. I remember one time I was watching a show about Hitler and it said he was born in 1899, not 1889. So I'm thinking that it had to be some kind of mistake because I sincerely doubt that that many people perished in death camps. 8O

Rob - wssob2
Member
Posts: 2387
Joined: 15 Apr 2002 20:29
Location: MA, USA

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 04 Nov 2003 03:48

I just did a search on NPR's website and couldn't find results with the search terms "death camp" "13 million" or "holocaust museum" for recent stories.

Perhaps the show was a repeat. It would help if we knew the particular programs (e.g. "All Things Considered," "Fresh Air" etc.)


Jews always remind us of the genocide and they are right but the fact is that they control a lot of the media

BTW NPR has been repeatedly accused of a "pro-Palestinian" bias in its coverage of current events in the ME:

http://home.comcast.net/~jat.action/Talk2Press.htm

http://world.std.com/~camera/docs/alert/cmndo.html

http://www.npr.org/yourturn/ombudsman/020405.html

http://www.npr.org/yourturn/ombudsman/020222.html


I guess "the Jews" don't control NPR. :roll:




Perhaps the narrarator used the phrase "death camp" (lowercase letters) to describe all three levels (I-III) of concentration camps, plus slave labor camps, PW camps, civilian refugee camps, etc. as opposed to the phrase "Death Camps" (capital letters) which specifically refer to Level III KZs like Auschwicz. If the former is true, 13 million is possible (combine Holocaust deaths with Soviet PW deaths with slave labor deaths etc.)
We should not forget what happened to the other nationality, Poles, Gypsies, Ukrainians and all of the others who were murdered by the Nazi.
The USHMM's archives include documentation relating the the persecution of Gypsies, Poles, Ukrainians, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Freemasons, etc. etc. The museum also develops programs about contemporary examples of racism and genocide, such as their exhibits on Rwanda, Chechnya and the Sudan.

http://www.ushmm.org/conscience/index.u ... /sudan.php

User avatar
Lawrence Tandy
Member
Posts: 1738
Joined: 18 May 2002 07:41
Location: B.C, Canada

Post by Lawrence Tandy » 04 Nov 2003 03:51

I'm sure it is on the forum somewhere, but how many non-jewish Germans died in the camps?

User avatar
Max2Cam
Member
Posts: 129
Joined: 30 Nov 2002 17:49
Location: Nord Amerika

Post by Max2Cam » 04 Nov 2003 16:34

I listen to NPR a lot, but I "think" it was on "All Things Considered." It was about some old guy from Germany (who I believe was Jewish) now living in the Midwest but visiting the National Holocaust Museum in Washington. The 13 million death camp figure definitely came from the narrator.

I found it on the NPR website. Harry Mayer was the survivor (I remember the name now).

An audio clip of the program is there, but it won't play for me.

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1490149

Survivors Gather at U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum

Listen to All Things Considered audio

Nov. 2, 2003
NPR's Steve Inskeep reports on this weekend's gathering of survivors of the Nazi Holocaust at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum. Inskeep speaks with survivor Harry Mayer, a native of Germany who as a young Jewish boy was interned at a camp in southwest France. Mayer was rescued by a group of Quakers who smuggled him to Switzerland, but his parents were believed killed at Auschwitz.
===========
National Socialism is really a way of life [eine Weltanschauung]. It always begins at the beginning and lays new foundations for life. That is why our task is so difficult, but also so beautiful.... -- Dr. Goebbels

User avatar
Max2Cam
Member
Posts: 129
Joined: 30 Nov 2002 17:49
Location: Nord Amerika

Post by Max2Cam » 04 Nov 2003 17:11

Here is the exact quote, taken from the audio clip:
"(Mayer's)...parents were left behind and moved to other camps and were finally killed at Auschwitz. They were among an estimated 13 million people killed in Nazi death camps, roughly half of them Jews."


This would appear to be the standard death camp figure as now given out on a major U.S. media source.
===========
National Socialism is really a way of life [eine Weltanschauung]. It always begins at the beginning and lays new foundations for life. That is why our task is so difficult, but also so beautiful.... -- Dr. Goebbels

User avatar
Mostowka
Member
Posts: 178
Joined: 10 Oct 2003 00:18
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden.

Post by Mostowka » 05 Nov 2003 12:42

Well Benoit,
You don't hear it often because they were not Jews... And the Jews always remind us of the genocide and they are right but the fact is that they control a lot of the media...
If you degrade yourself to using the old cliché "The Jews own the media" then explain why the holocaust had such a marginal role in the media, tv, press before 1967 ? Is it because the Jews didn´t own the media ? Or that they choose not to expose the holocaust ?

One good explanation is perhaps that Poles and Russians were not systematicly sent to deathcamps and that the small group of people that were sent there were done soo becasue of the political allegiance and not race. When speaking of the gypsies tha majority was not sent too the deathcamps but shot on site where they were found (Source: Raul Hilbergs last chapter in "The destruction of the European Jews").



Do you remember the genocide of the Armenian commited by the Turks during World War I?
Well as I was not there it´s hard for me too remember it although I have read about it and the most accurate number of persons killed was 2 million. Very horrible and stands among ALL the other genocides of the 2000-th century equally.
We should not forget what happened to the other nationality, Poles, Gypsies, Ukrainians and all of the others who were murdered by the Nazi.
They are aboslutley not forgotten and you should see all the moments dedicated too the murdered Poles and Ukrainians that stand there today in remebarance of the killed. The big diffrence is that Jews fled after the war to USA, France, Israel, Great Britian - The Poles and Ukrainians did that to a far lesser extent and that is perhaps a reason that the far more extensive destruction of the Polish Jewry gets more attention.

User avatar
chalutzim
Member
Posts: 803
Joined: 09 Nov 2002 20:00
Location: Südamerika - Brazil

Post by chalutzim » 05 Nov 2003 17:35

Lawrence Tandy wrote:I'm sure it is on the forum somewhere, but how many non-jewish Germans died in the camps?
Total Deaths from Nazi Genocidal Policies

Group/Deaths

European Jews/5,600,000 to 6,250,000
Soviet prisoners of war/3,000,000
Polish Catholics /3,000,000
Serbians/700,000 (Croat Ustasa persecution)
Roma, Sinti, and Lalleri/222,000 to 250,000
Germans (political, religious, and Resistance)/80,000
Germans (handicapped)/70,000
Homosexuals/12,000
Jehovah’s Witnesses/2500
http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/Holoc ... dices.html

viriato
Member
Posts: 717
Joined: 21 Apr 2002 13:23
Location: Porto,Portugal

Post by viriato » 05 Nov 2003 23:44

It seems that Chalutzim somewhat forgot (did he?) to quote some other numbers:

Jewish deaths - Gerald Reitlinger (4.204,400 to 4,575,400) and Raoul Hilberg (some 5,1 million)

Polish non-Jews deaths - the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (1,8 to 1,9 million)

Serbian deaths - Kocovic and Zerjavic (respectively 487,000 and 530,000, not all due to Ustasa terror)

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”