Jewish Concentration Camp Guards?!

LAH Pz Grenadiere · Post by **LAH Pz Grenadiere** » 17 Dec 2003 06:52

I read in another forum that Jews served in the Wehrmacht. Were there any SS-Jew guards in the death camps?

David Thompson · Post by **David Thompson** » 17 Dec 2003 19:29

LAH Pz Grenadiere -- What do you mean by "SS-Jew guard"? A Jewish member of the SS? An SS man detailed to guard Jews?

LAH Pz Grenadiere · Post by **LAH Pz Grenadiere** » 17 Dec 2003 19:47

I mean was there actually SS men who were Jewish? If so, why?

Michael Miller · Post by **Michael Miller** » 17 Dec 2003 19:53

Officially, no Jew was or could be a member of the SS. It is well known- and thoroughly examined in a recent book- that a modest number of Jews and "Mischlinge" (people of partial Jewish blood) could be found in the ranks of the Wehrmacht, but this was certainly the exception and not the rule. German Jews were stripped of Reich citizenship by the Nuremberg Laws of 1935, and were specifically barred from service in the armed forces of the Reich.

So, in answer to your question- HIGHLY unlikely. Precisely the sort of "research topic" that "justifies" the existence of outfits like the "Institute for Historical Review", "CODOH", and "RODOH", though (eg: "If the Nazis hated the Jews so much, why did they allow them to serve as SS camp guards?").

Regards,
~ Mike Miller

LAH Pz Grenadiere · Post by **LAH Pz Grenadiere** » 17 Dec 2003 21:32

What is the institute for historical review?

Michael Miller · Post by **Michael Miller** » 17 Dec 2003 21:49

Institute for Historical Review (IHR)- In a nutshell, they're A group of pseudo-historians who deny the Holocaust under the guise of "historical revisionism". For many years (perhaps to this day) they were headquartered in Torrance, California. A most dubious distinction for my otherwise undistinguished town of birth.

Do a Google search and you'll find tons of their Nazi-apologist garbage disguised as fact.

~ Mike Miller

Vadim · Post by **Vadim** » 18 Dec 2003 03:49

Michael, I dont think RODOH should be mentioned in the same sentence as the other two "outfits". IHR and CODOH are indeed vicious Holocaust denial sites where no debate to the contrary is allowed. RODOH, on the other hand, encourages free debate and exchange of ideas, both members and moderators there are a mix of "Deniers" and "Believers", which only makes the debate more interesting. Not the site for the easily offended, thats true, but certainly does not deserve being compared to IHR. Just my opinion.

David Thompson · Post by **David Thompson** » 18 Dec 2003 12:24

It is the policy here to avoid discussions of other forums. Let's move on.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » 18 Dec 2003 13:29

David Thompson wrote:It is the policy here to avoid discussions of other forums. Let's move on.

You brought it up, Michael. I doubt Hans and Andrew Mathis would like to be called Deniers.......

But whatever, I understand the number of Jews or part Jews to be on the order of 150,000. I always like to try to put my feet in the other guy's shoes. I imagine myself in the situation that I'm labelled a half Jew or quarter Jew and I want to better myself, or perhaps I'm patriotic, or perhaps I want a better life for my family. By joining the army you could do these things.

As to the SS, more than a half million weren't German, and it's safe to say there were Jewish and part Jewish camp guards.

Witch-King of Angmar · Post by **Witch-King of Angmar** » 18 Dec 2003 13:39

Michael Miller wrote:Officially, no Jew was or could be a member of the SS.

Officially, there weren't supposed to be any Jews writing at Der Sturmer either

~The Witch-King of Angmar

LAH Pz Grenadiere · Post by **LAH Pz Grenadiere** » 18 Dec 2003 20:27

Hey this is getting out of hand here. I only had a very narrow question here. The fact that Jews served in the Wehrmacht proves to me that the Nazi leadership was wishy washy to say the least.

alsaco · Post by **alsaco** » 20 Dec 2003 11:00

No.

The nazi leadership was anarchic.

On one hand, the Party had is own order, for administrative internment, and police forces beside the normal one, and a personal administration;

On the other the Party was the political majority giving orders to the normal german administration, through laws and regulation.

Jews had been excluded from german nationality, and organised as a separate group by a Law.
The Wehrmacht did recruit according to these laws. Not being germans they were excluded from the Army. But should they pretend they were germans, the recruitment did not make inquiries, if they could produce the right proofs.
Therefore some jews, according to legal definition, but having succesfully hidden the fact could have joined the military.

But no army forces were affected as KL camp guards. These camps being administred by the Party, as part of the police party SD system, took their guards from the SA and Allgemeine SS.
The SS were accepted only after producing a special certificate called Ahnenforschùng, resulting from an inquiry among their family, establishing candidates had no parents having practised the jewish religion.

KL guards having submitted to this exam as SS or Nsdap members could not be jews

Inside the jewish "nation", in ghettos, there were jewish police forces, controlled by the local jewish autorithies, supervised by local SS delegates. But this transitory organisation was external to the camp system.

Organisation of the progressive exclusion of german jews from the german citizenship, is described by Viktor Klemperer, in his "Journal" in two volumes, on his situation 1933-1945 in Desden,

LAH Pz Grenadiere · Post by **LAH Pz Grenadiere** » 23 Dec 2003 00:35

Thanks Alasco.

Misty Dawn Bright · Post by **Misty Dawn Bright** » 07 Jan 2004 14:28

BTW, just an interesting tidbit .... Has anyone read Mother Night, by Kurt Vonnegut? There is a character in the book who is an Israeli Jew, who disguised himself as an "Aryan" and eventually joined the S.S. Vonnegut doesn't say anything about how this guy could have pulled off going through the application process, as rigorous as the scrutiny was supposed to be ....

Not giving an opinion here ....

Misty

Aleksei22 · Post by **Aleksei22** » 07 Jan 2004 16:05

Hello, all

Some remarks as add on .
________________________
Jew guards in the death camps?
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Sometimes they were called as CAPO. Sometimes – in other way.

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Officially, no Jew was or could be a member of the SS.
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But were it possible for them to be a productive members of
Well known AinzatzGruppen ( A,B,C,D) ?????

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