Jewish women used in Wehrmacht brothels?

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
User avatar
Beppo Schmidt
Member
Posts: 4324
Joined: 14 May 2003 02:05
Location: Ohio, USA

Jewish women used in Wehrmacht brothels?

Post by Beppo Schmidt » 25 Jan 2004 21:01

I heard before that Jewish women from concentration camps were used in Wehrmacht brothels, but wouldn't that have violated the Nazi ban on sexual intercourse with a Jew? Or is this just not true at all.

ChristopherPerrien
Member
Posts: 7023
Joined: 26 Dec 2002 00:58
Location: Mississippi

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 25 Jan 2004 21:07

Just not true at all.

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23261
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Post by David Thompson » 25 Jan 2004 22:08

Beppo -- Check sections 1, 2 and 5(1) and (2):

Law for the Protection of
German Blood and German Honor
(September 15, 1935)


Entirely convinced that the purity of German blood is essential to the further existence of the German people, and inspired by the uncompromising determination to safeguard the future of the German nation, the Reichstag has unanimously resolved upon the following law, which is promulgated herewith:

Section 1

1. Marriages between Jews and citizens of German or kindred blood are forbidden. Marriages concluded in defiance of this law are void, even if, for the purpose of evading this law, they were concluded abroad.
2. Proceedings for annulment may be initiated only by the Public Prosecutor.

Section 2

Sexual relations outside marriage between Jews and nationals of German or kindred blood are forbidden.

Section 3

Jews will not be permitted to employ female citizens of German or kindred blood as domestic servants.

Section 4

1. Jews are forbidden to display the Reich and national flag or the national colors.
2. On the other hand they are permitted to display the Jewish colors. The exercise of this right is protected by the State.

Section 5

1. A person who acts contrary to the prohibition of Section 1 will be punished with hard labour.
2. A person who acts contrary to the prohibition of Section 2 will be punished with imprisonment or with hard labour.
3. A person who acts contrary to the provisions of Sections 3 or
4 will be punished with imprisonment up to a year and with a fine, or with one of these penalties.

Section 6

The Reich Minister of the Interior in agreement with the Deputy Fuhrer and the Reich Minister of Justice will issue the legal and administrative regulations required for the enforcement and supplementing of this law.

Section 7

The law will become effective on the day after its promulgation; Section 3, however, not until 1 January 1936.


Sources: Noakes, Jeremy, and Geoffrey Pridham. Documents on Nazism 1919-1945. NY: Viking Press, 1974, pp. 463-467, and The Nizkor Project.

on line at: http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Holocaust/nurmlaw2.htm

User avatar
David E M
Member
Posts: 551
Joined: 22 May 2002 07:52
Location: Melbourne Australia

Post by David E M » 26 Jan 2004 06:42

We are really talking about the sexual relief of the soldier, (it violates section 2 - so what, I'm in Stalingrad :lol: ) if she gets pregnant - easy. Sad but true.

What about the Jewesses tattooed, 'Field whore for the German Army' ?.

Actually thats interesting, and I didn't get it from just 'Good old Sven'.

Urban myth?

cheers.

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23261
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Post by David Thompson » 26 Jan 2004 07:10

David EM -- You said:
We are really talking about the sexual relief of the soldier, (it violates section 2 - so what, I'm in Stalingrad [inappropriate smiley excised by moderator]) if she gets pregnant - easy. Sad but true.


You also said:
What about the Jewesses tattooed, 'Field whore for the German Army' ?.

Actually thats interesting, and I didn't get it from just 'Good old Sven'.

Urban myth?


Your first comment suggests that officers of the German armed forces would have happily (and publicly) violated Nazi racial laws to help the troops achieve sexual satisfaction. Your second comment suggests that more than one Jewish woman was tatooed "'Field whore for the German Army." What authority, if any, do you have for those propositions?

User avatar
Penn44
Banned
Posts: 4214
Joined: 26 Jun 2003 06:25
Location: US

Post by Penn44 » 26 Jan 2004 07:17

David E M wrote:What about the Jewesses tattooed, 'Field whore for the German Army' ?.


Given that the Nazis considered the Jews to be subversive elements who must be segregated from Aryans and destroyed, as well as the available supply of non-Jewish women (i.e., Soviet) to serve as prostitutes, I don't see the German military using Jewish women as prostitutes for its troops.

Many troops (of any nationality) will get emotionally attached to their prostitutes. From a Nazi perspective, using Jewish women to service German troops was too much of a security and racial risk.

Penn44

nondescript handle
Financial supporter
Posts: 1837
Joined: 27 May 2003 00:01
Location: Berlin, Germany

Post by nondescript handle » 26 Jan 2004 08:57

Since when are the authorities of dictatorships subjects of their own laws?

Even when concentrating on the Wehrmachts brothels ('Wehrmachtsbordelle' and 'Absteigehotels'), one must divide the approx. 500 brothels (1942) into those on the western front (i.e. France) and those on the eastern front.

The French brothels were staffed allmost exclusively with Fench prostitutes (some women applied, while the most were interned for illegal prostitution and were pressed into the service of those borthels). The requisites for these women included the racial status.

The eastern brothels relied heavily on forced labor (including concentration camp inmates from Ravensbrück). I have very little information on the working of these brothels, but I know that there was a decree dating March 1942 that states that Jewish women are not allowed to work in Wehrmacht brothels. So one can conclude that such was at least not uncommon before that date.

Somewhat paradoxically the SS cared little about the race of the concentration camp inmates they used in their brothels ('SS-Bordelle' brothels for KZ guards; 'Bordelle für Fremdarbeiter' brothels for forced labor; 'Sonderbauten'; brothels for KZ inmates). But of course they thought of these poor women as 'disposables'.

The incident with the 'Hure für Hitlers Truppe'-tattoo is reported in Helke Sander and Barbara Johr "BeFreier und Befreite, Vergewaltigungen, Kinder" 1992.
But that victim was not a prostitute, she was a partisan. That tattoo was part of her torture and raping, but I can not give more details as I haven't read that book.

Other sources for that sickening topic are : Christa Paul "Zwangsprostitution - Staatlich errichtete Bordelle im Nationalsozialismus", 1994 and Insa Meinen "Wehrmacht und Prostitution im besetzten Frankreich", 1999; the latter is available in an abbreviated form on the internet.

Regards
Mark

User avatar
Penn44
Banned
Posts: 4214
Joined: 26 Jun 2003 06:25
Location: US

Post by Penn44 » 26 Jan 2004 09:10

nondescript handle wrote:Since when are the authorities of dictatorships subjects of their own laws?


When that dictatorship is a racist dictatorship. The Germans undermined their war industry by killing off their Jewish labor, do you think that whorehouse staffing concerns would lead them to keep Jewsh females in their front whore houses?

nondescript handle wrote:The eastern brothels relied heavily on forced labor (including concentration camp inmates from Ravensbrück). I have very little information on the working of these brothels, but I know that there was a decree dating March 1942 that states that Jewish women are not allowed to work in Wehrmacht brothels. So one can conclude that such was at least not uncommon before that date.


You cannot "conclude" whether it was "not uncommon" based on the evidence that you presented. You just don't have the evidence to state how common or uncommon it was.

Penn44


.

Witch-King of Angmar
Member
Posts: 915
Joined: 28 Feb 2003 20:40
Location: Europe

Post by Witch-King of Angmar » 26 Jan 2004 11:05

Intercourse between German troopers and Jewish females was not the kind of thing the Reich's authorities would tolerate.

The only place in which Jewesses were brought to brothels for both guardsmen and Kapos were the concentration camps.

~The Witch-King of Angmar

nondescript handle
Financial supporter
Posts: 1837
Joined: 27 May 2003 00:01
Location: Berlin, Germany

Post by nondescript handle » 27 Jan 2004 01:01

There is very little evidence concerning the Wehrmacht brothels at the eastern front.
But most of it seems to hint that 'racially inferior' women were in fact forced to work in Wehrmachts brothels:

1. The rationale for penalizing 'Rassenschande' ('interracial coitus') were the fear of 'bastards', who would dilute the precious 'aryan blood'. This was a non issue with the prostitutes who weren't allowed to bear kids (in fact most of them died from unprofessional performed abortions).
2. The borthels for the SS-Guards used Jewish inmates of Ravensbrück, why should there be a lower racially standard for the SS compared to the Wehrmacht?
3. The former inmate of Ravensbrück Antonia Bruha writes in her Book (Ich war keine Heldin), that the decision of the 'workplace' (brothel for SS-guards, Wehrmacht or KZ inmates) for the prostituted inmates was made only by the looks and the language of the woman.
3, There is one anecdotal report, of locally forced Jewish prostitutes: When the 11th army 1941 organised a brothel for its troops in Soroca (Ukraine/Moldavia), all prostitutes were forced Jewish wemen of Soroca (source: Curzio Malaparte, Italian war correspondent).

Regards
Mark

Witch-King of Angmar
Member
Posts: 915
Joined: 28 Feb 2003 20:40
Location: Europe

Post by Witch-King of Angmar » 27 Jan 2004 01:30

nondescript handle wrote:2. The borthels for the SS-Guards used Jewish inmates of Ravensbrück, why should there be a lower racially standard for the SS compared to the Wehrmacht?
3. The former inmate of Ravensbrück Antonia Bruha writes in her Book (Ich war keine Heldin), that the decision of the 'workplace' (brothel for SS-guards, Wehrmacht or KZ inmates) for the prostituted inmates was made only by the looks and the language of the woman.


Sheer necessity. Free women could not be allowed to enter the camp, so they used what they had available.

nondescript handle wrote:3, There is one anecdotal report, of locally forced Jewish prostitutes: When the 11th army 1941 organised a brothel for its troops in Soroca (Ukraine/Moldavia), all prostitutes were forced Jewish wemen of Soroca (source: Curzio Malaparte, Italian war correspondent).


Curzio Suckert aka "Malaparte" was hardly a neutral source.

~The Witch-King of Angmar

User avatar
David E M
Member
Posts: 551
Joined: 22 May 2002 07:52
Location: Melbourne Australia

Post by David E M » 27 Jan 2004 01:34

This is probably an unsavory topic but one I think should not be ignored.

In McLean's book 'The Cruel Hunters', he states that Dirlewanger was suspected of having sexual relations with a Jewess in Lublin, also can you imagine Dirlewanger troops coming across a beautiful young Jewess in Warsaw, and leaving her unmolested?.

And the Brothel in Auchwitz? staffed by whom? we are talking about pure sex here not love and family, sort of stress relief.

Didn't Amon Goeth have a Jewish mistress? and wasn't there a Gauleiter in Poland who was killed when his Jewish mistress threw a granade under his bed?.

As for the tatoo, I have seen a photo of a woman tatooed on her chest 'Field whore for the German army'. it was on the dust jacket of a book (no details- sorry ) so that proves nothing.

James Mitchener in his book 'The Source' ( a Novel ) poses the question of a woman returned from the war with the tatoo and her family won't take her back, was it her fault?.

So the question of the tatoo is repeated, what I ask is, did it really happen or is it an Urban Myth?.

Thanks for your answers guys.

Cheers.

User avatar
Penn44
Banned
Posts: 4214
Joined: 26 Jun 2003 06:25
Location: US

Post by Penn44 » 27 Jan 2004 02:04

nondescript handle wrote:There is very little evidence concerning the Wehrmacht brothels at the eastern front. But most of it seems to hint that 'racially inferior' women were in fact forced to work in Wehrmachts brothels:


By "racially inferior" women, those sources probably meant Slavs. As you know, Jews and Slavs were Untermenschen in Nazi parlance. But whereas Slavs were "racially inferior," the Jews were also "racially dangerous."

nondescript handle wrote:1. The rationale for penalizing 'Rassenschande' ('interracial coitus') were the fear of 'bastards', who would dilute the precious 'aryan blood'. This was a non issue with the prostitutes who weren't allowed to bear kids (in fact most of them died from unprofessional performed abortions).


Actually, some Nazi pseudo-scientific biology tracts state that the exchange of body fluids that occurs during the sexual act will cause Rassenschande contamination of the blood.

The impact of these Nazi biological myths on actual events often took bizarre forms. For example, when the Jews of Berlin were deported east, they had to leave their pets behind. Instead of giving these pets to Aryans (some of these animals were high quality, expensive animals), the Nazis chose to exterminate them instead because the Nazis feared that the animals had become "Jewish" animals from having lived in close proximity to their Jewish owners.

nondescript handle wrote:2. The borthels for the SS-Guards used Jewish inmates of Ravensbrück, why should there be a lower racially standard for the SS compared to the Wehrmacht?


Security concerns. The SS guard was a definite "breed" than the typical Wehrmacht serviceman. The ideological selection and indoctrination of an SS man as well as his camp experience hardened him against feelings towards the Jews. The average Wehrmacht serviceman on the other hand would have been more susceptible to having or forming sympathies for the Jews.

Mark, I recommend that you go do field research at a brothel and discover firsthand the social interaction that goes on there. You'll discover that some men will become emotionally attached to prostitutes. Soldiers who are far away from home and love ones may be more susceptible than most. Given that Nazi racial ideology and policies impacted heavily on the Wehrmacht's conduct, the Wehrmacht should have refrained from using Jewish prostitutes in its military brothels for fear that this close interaction between Aryan and Jew would have stirred sympathies within some German soldiers for the Jews. That there were Jewish females in these brothels should have been the rare exception and not the rule.


Penn44

michael mills
Member
Posts: 8820
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 12:42
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by michael mills » 27 Jan 2004 03:15

Sexual contact between Germans and Jewish was certainly forbidden in the context of the concentration camps and anywhere else.

The prisoner doctor, Ella Lingens-Reiner, an Austrian woman who was sent to Auschwitz as a punishment for her work on behalf of Jews, has something interesting to say on the matter. She was asked by the Jewish female prisoners she looked after, all young women in their late teens or early twenties, why the German camp staff, who were mostly young men in their own age group, treated them so brutally. They could not understand why young men, from whom they would normally expect affection, and to whom they may well have been attracted, could be so abnormally cruel.

Lingens-Reiner's theory was that the cruelty of the camp staff had its origin in the sublimation of frustrated sexuality. In any situation where men have women under their total control, the men normally utilise their power to use the women sexually, with the resultant development of bonds of affection (on that point Penn 44 has got it right).

However, in the concentration camps, the German staff were denied sexual access to the women in their power by the laws against "Rassenschande", leading to sexual frustration which they vented through cruel acts and the infliction of pain.

Lingens-Reiner wrote about her experiences at Auschwitz in the book "Prisoners of Fear".

The above applies only to sexual relations between Germans and Jews. No doubt non-German auxiliaries, eg Ukrainians, took the opportunity to use Jewish women sexually, since German racial legislation did not apply to them.

michael mills
Member
Posts: 8820
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 12:42
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by michael mills » 27 Jan 2004 03:20

Penn 44 wrote:

The impact of these Nazi biological myths on actual events often took bizarre forms. For example, when the Jews of Berlin were deported east, they had to leave their pets behind. Instead of giving these pets to Aryans (some of these animals were high quality, expensive animals), the Nazis chose to exterminate them instead because the Nazis feared that the animals had become "Jewish" animals from having lived in close proximity to their Jewish owners.



The above sounds like an urban myth to me. Could we have some evidence please?

The German authorities had no qualms about issuing to ethnic German refugees clothing that had previously been worn by Jews and had no doubt absorbed quite a bit of Jewish sweat and other bodily fluids.

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”