Sobibor Death Camp Uprising

giles120 · Post by **giles120** » 27 Jan 2004 14:27

At the time of the uprising(October 14th 1943),
Hauptsturmführer Franz Reichleitner and Sturmcharführer Gustav Wagner
were in Lublin(according to the movie 'Escape from Sobibor'). The running of the camp was entrusted to Untersturmführer Johann Niemann and Obercharführer Karl Frenzel.

I know the HQ of Aktion Reinhardt were located in Lublin. Was it possible that they were going for a meeting with SS Gruppenführer and Lieut. General of Police Odilo Globocnik or one of his subordinates/office representatives? Can anyone provide information on Reichleitner and
Wagner's whereabouts at the time of the outbreak?

Thanks

mars · Post by **mars** » 28 Jan 2004 02:08

I know Gustav Wagner was on leave that day, he was the most brutal and most hated SS guard in this death camp, there is 2 very good book about this uprising, first is " Escape from Sobibor " by Richard Rashke, another is a memory of one of the Sobibor survior, Thomas Toivi Blatt's "From the Ashes of Sobibor: A Story of Survival", these books not only introduced the daily life in the camp and the uprising, they also described what happened to these survivor who broke out the Sobibor, it was amazing.

giles120 · Post by **giles120** » 28 Jan 2004 12:57

I have read "Escape from Sobibor" by Richard Rashke and found it an extremely moving account. I thought it was well written, and particularly liked the way the author divided his writing into generic Aktion Reinhardt information, daily duties in Sobibor for the Jews selected for life(at least in the short term), and at the end, personal account of those that escaped and survived the war.

For those with any degree of interest in the Holocaust, I must recommend Martin Gilbert's "The Holocaust A Jewish Tragedy". Also, Gerald Green's "Holocaust"(made into a TV mini series).

Many survivors mention in their accounts that Wagner was unusually cunning, and would have been far more difficult to deceive than many of the other serving SS men. The original date of escape was the 13th October 1943, but it had to be postponed to the 14th due to the arrival of an SS company taking a one day break from the front. Gustav Wagner was due to return to the camp on the 15th, and as the prisoners did not want to risk an escape when he was there, it was decided the 14th would be the day.

I have read a number of accounts regarding the escape, and none of them go into any real details about whereabouts. Most of them state Franz Reichleitner, Gustav Wagner and Hubert Gomerski were on leave.
The reason I ask this question is because it is clear in the movie that Reichleitner entrusts running of the camp to Johann Niemann and Karl Frenzel when he and Wagner leave for Lublin(perhaps suggesting they were going on official business). I was wondering whether anyone could clarify this ie whether they were on official business or actual leave from the camp.

Thanks.

Earldor · Post by **Earldor** » 28 Jan 2004 16:09

giles120 wrote:I have read "Escape from Sobibor" by Richard Rashke and found it an extremely moving account.

I'd like to recommend Toivi Blatt's "Sobibor - The Forgotten Revolt". You can find some more info e.g. here http://www.sobibor.info/ and http://www.deathcamps.org/sobibor/

giles120 wrote:The reason I ask this question is because it is clear in the movie that Reichleitner entrusts running of the camp to Johann Niemann and Karl Frenzel

Well, That would be normal as Niemann was an SS-Untersturmführer (he outranked both Wagner and Frenzel) and he was the deputy kommendant.

According to the statements of Wolf and Wagner in their trial "...it appears that of the twentynine Germans posted at Sobibór in October 1943, twelwe were on furlough. " (Raul Hilberg: The Destruction of the European Jews, Vol. III p.917 footnote 94)

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 28 Jan 2004 16:40

SS-Hscha Niemann was only promoted SS-Ustuf POSTHUMOUSLY in the lists of promotions and KVK awards at the end of Action Reinhard.

NOTE: Yup, I was thinking of the wrong list. This was not actually a posthumous promotion, it was probably recommended in Feb 43, was formalised in writing in April 43 and made effective in Jun 43.

Earldor · Post by **Earldor** » 28 Jan 2004 18:21

Iltis wrote:SS-Hscha Niemann was only promoted SS-Ustuf POSTHUMOUSLY in the lists of promotions and KVK awards at the end of Action Reinhard.

http://www.deathcamps.org/sobibor/perpetrators.html quoted with relevant portions:

NIEMANN, Johann SS-Untersturmführer
04/08/1913 - 14/10/1943

[snip]

SERVICE AT BELZEC:
Served in Belzec as SS-Hauptscharführer before he was permanently posted to Sobibor.

SERVICE AT SOBIBOR:
As soldier in the Waffen-SS, he served sveral times in 1942 as acting commander in this camp. Since early 1943 he occupied the post of camp commander permanently. He was responsible for the events in Camp III. Promoted SS-Untersturmführer after Himmler's visit to the camp on 12th February 1943.

[snip]

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 28 Jan 2004 19:15

Yes I saw that on the website but I was looking at a listing from the BDC which has a lot of "Reinhard" men being promoted and did appear to be later.

I just dug deeper and found a letter confirming the 4 men's promotions to SS-Ustuf (Waffen-SS) dated 12 April 43, it makes the promotions effective on 21 June 1943.

giles120 · Post by **giles120** » 29 Jan 2004 01:08

In reference to the link provided from the valuable online Holocaust resource http://www.deathcamps.org/sobibor/perpetrators.html
there are a couple of questions.

With regards to Johann Niemann, it states;

"FATE: He was the first SS-officer to be killed during the revolt in the dressmaking barrack."
Niemann was the only officer at Sobibor on October 14th 1943, and furthermore, there were only two officers assigned to the camp anyway(Reichleitner and Niemann).

SERVICE AT SOBIBOR: "Since early 1943 he occupied the post of camp commander permanently. He was responsible for the events in Camp III. Promoted SS-Untersturmführer(2nd Lieutenant) after Himmler's visit to the camp on 12th February 1943."
He did not occupy the post of camp commander at any time. With the expansion of Sobibor, there was a change in staff. Franz Stangl was promoted to Kommandant of Treblinka, and was replaced by Franz Reichleitner. When Reichleitner assumed command of Sobibor(September 1942), he held the rank of Polizeihauptmann(the rank he held whilst working at Gestapo HQ in Linz). On the same day as Niemann recieved his promotion to Untersturmführer, Reichleitner was promoted SS-Hauptsturmführer.
Niemann as deputy Kommandant was responsible for events in Camp III, but also events in Camp I and II. Camp III was where the gas chambers were located as well as the outdoor crematoria and the barracks for the Camp III worker Jews. Niemann kept a low profile, and the Jews only rarely saw him. Day to day operation of Camp III was left to Oberscharführer Kurt Bolander and later Oberscharführer Erich Bauer.

Additional resources I have read confirm that Niemann was Untersturmführer at the time of the revolt. So, either his promotion was effective immeditaly following Himmler's visit, or it happened sometime between 12th February 1943 and 14th October 1943. He was not promoted posthumously.

Thanks.

Earldor · Post by **Earldor** » 29 Jan 2004 01:41

"FATE: He was the first SS-officer to be killed during the revolt in the dressmaking barrack."

Niemann was the only officer at Sobibor on October 14th 1943, and furthermore, there were only two officers assigned to the camp anyway(Reichleitner and Niemann).

It is my understanding that the English word "officer" does not necessarily always refer to "a commissioned officer." I believe that in this case the meaning isn't restricted to commissioned SS-officers.

SERVICE AT SOBIBOR: "Since early 1943 he occupied the post of camp commander permanently. He was responsible for the events in Camp III. Promoted SS-Untersturmführer(2nd Lieutenant) after Himmler's visit to the camp on 12th February 1943."
He did not occupy the post of camp commander at any time.

That does seem like a mistake, but why don't you contact the ARC staff, they are _extremely knowledgeable_ on these matters and I'm sure they can give you an explanation. http://www.deathcamps.org/contact/

[snip]

Additional resources I have read confirm that Niemann was Untersturmführer at the time of the revolt. So, either his promotion was effective immeditaly following Himmler's visit, or it happened sometime between 12th February 1943 and 14th October 1943. He was not promoted posthumously.

I personally believe that Iltis' info regarding the promotion becoming effective in the summer of 1943 is credible.

David Thompson · Post by **David Thompson** » 29 Jan 2004 03:12

Earldor -- You're correct about the English word "officer" and Army ranks. When I served in the US Army there were commissioned officers (2nd Lieutenant through General of the Armies), warrant officers (abbreviated WO and distinguished by "class," as in Warrant Officer First Class), and non-commissioned officers (Corporals through Sergeants-Major). Popularly, the term "officers" now usually refers to commissioned and warrant officers, but in the past the term has been used to designate any military official who commanded subordinates. Officer candidates or "cadets" are in a category all their own.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 29 Jan 2004 08:25

I have copies of a series of documents from BDC files, particularly from records of NCO's and Warrant Officers.

There are 2 lists, one is a preliminary promotions list and the second appears to be the finalised copy (after the last days of March 43). They are both headed by SS-Hstuf u. Pol-Maj Wirth with a promotion to SS-Stubaf. 3 of the Waffen SS Hscha are promoted to SS-Ustuf and one SS-Oscha.

There is a letter dated 12 Apr 43 to Globocnik which refers to these 4 and the reply to SS-Pers HA dated 12 May 43, concerning the minutae of SS promotions (hand written personal life history, mug-shots, etc for each of the 4).

On one of the associated pages the terminology is:

Auf Befehl des Reichsführer-SS sind folgende Angehörige des Sonderkommandos "Reinhard" am 21.6.43 zu SS-Untersturmführern zu befördern:

then it lists Niemann and 2 other SS-Hscha and an SS-Oscha

The same 4 men are mentioned in the middle of a badly damaged and faint 2 page document (after a previous letter of 19.8.43) dealing with the promotions of Stangl, Hering, Wirth and Reichleitner. Everything seems to be effective from 21 Jun 43.

Hope that this is of interest.

giles120 · Post by **giles120** » 30 Jan 2004 00:33

Thanks to all for your responses.
Following on from David's comments, in the British Army we have WO 2(CSM-Company Sergeant Major and RQMS-Regimental Quarter Master Sergeant), and WO1(RSM-Regimental Sergeant Major). The rank below WO2 is Staff Sergeant and they are addressed as Staff Sergeant. Both WO2 and WO1 are addressed as Sir, despite the fact that they are not Commissioned Officers.

Despite this clarification ie that the title Officer does not always refer to a Commissioned Officer, the statement "He was the first SS-officer to be killed during the revolt in the dressmaking barrack" still raises questions. Does it mean he was the first SS man to be killed, or the first SS man killed in the dress making barracks? If the first, this in incorrect as the first to die was Unterscharführer Joseph Wolf(brother of Oberscharführer Franz Wolf). If the second, what was the "dressmaking barracks", and was it simply another word for tailors shop?

A number of historical documents I have read state that Niemann was killed in the tailors shop trying on a new uniform. This is supported in Richard Rashke's non fiction work 'Escape From Sobibor'. Rashke had a telephone interview with Yehuda Lerner(the Polish Jew assigned to kill Niemann) to gather information. It is interesting to note that in the movie of the same name starring Rutger Hauer, Niemann is actually killed in the shoe shop trying on a new pair of boots.

Thanks.