Dear Mr. David Thompson,
Lucius Felix Silla --
(1) You said:
Unfortunately, Pressac omits stating that Leuchter:
-came to exactly the opposite conclusion: for Leuchter, a gas chamber did not exist and could not exist there;
- based his findings on physical inspection and with chemycal analyses to Alpha Laboratories (in USA). These analyses revealed that, in the alleged homicidal gas chamber, the amount of ferric-ferro-cyanide was either ZERO or infinitesimal by comparison with samples from a disinfection gas chamber of Auschwitz which had quantities of ferric-ferro-cyanide equal to 1.050 mg per kg, i.e. at least 133 (!) times that of maximum quantity found in the alleged homicidal gas chamber (7,9 mg per kg).
Here one can see the Leuchter Rapport
In this argument, I have been very careful to provide you and the readers with page references. Could you please do the same with your Leuchter citation? This will save me, and the readers who are trying to follow this discussion, the inconvenience of having to read all of Leuchter's report to find a single fact. If possible, cite directly to the page or paragraph number of Leuchter's explanation for the presence of cyanide in the walls of the homicidal gas chamber of Krema I. If Leuchter concluded that there were no cyanide traces in those walls, please give that reference
And You concludes:
You (Lucius Felix Silla) have not responded to this request.
Oh, what mistaken!
In reality, that’s not entirely true because I have answer in these exact terms:
“As for the explication provided by Leuchter about the presence of insignificants traces of HCN in samples taken from Krematorium I, he states :”It is notable that almost all the samples were negative and that the few that were positive were very close to the detection level (1 mg/kg); 6.7 mg/kg at Krema III; 7.9 mg/kg at Krema I. The absence of any consequential readings at any of the tested locations as compared with the control sample reading 1050 mg/kg supports the evidence that these facilities were not execution gas chambers. The small quantities detected would indicate that at some point these buildings were deloused with Zyklon B -- as were all the buildings at all these facilities.” see Leuchter, Forensic Considerations of HCN, Cyano-compounds and Crematories
So in my reply I have provided to You and to all readers non only the exact words employed by Mr. Leuchter in the paragraph “Forensic Considerations of HCN, Cyano-compunds and crematories” (which contains the explication given by Leuchter for the presence of insignificants traces of HCN in samples taken in Krematorium I or in the others presumed homicidal gas chamber of Birkenau) but the link to go directly to exact page of the so called “First Leuchter Rapport” where this statement is present , so all that one must do is …click the link!. As for the number of page, the Leuchter Rapport have been printed and circulated in so much numerous versions that I have chosen this solution. But if You prefers, the statement is at pagg. 10-11 of the condensed version (which contains Leuchter’s full report but only a selected number of its attached appendices) published by Samisdat Publishers Ltd. : Fredrick A. Leuchter, An Engineering Report on the alleged Execution Gas Chambers at
Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek, Poland, Samisdat Publishers Ltd., Toronto 1988, pp.34. Also a full version, which is long pp.196, with complete appendices have been published by Revisionist and Historical Video Tapes. Audio Tapes and Books. David Clark P.O. Box 726, Decatur, Alabama 35602, in 1988 with a foreword of Prof. Robert Faurisson, but I don’t have – One another version (with more appendices than the condensed version, but I don’t known if complete) was published in June 1989 by Focal Point Publications, London with a foreword of David Irving and one introduction of Prof. Robert Faurisson. The statement which I have quoted is at pag.15.
(2) When I pointed out that it would be no surprise to find a higher concentration of cyanide in the delousing facilities than there would be in a homicidal gassing facility, since each disinfestation gassing took longer, you replied:
Your hypothesis is unreliable for these simple reasons.
1. A higher concentration of HCN was employed in gassing operations to kill human beings, according to Pressac same.
2. The time of exposition.
3. The walls of the presumed homicidal gas chambers were exposed to a superior amount of HCN than delousing gas chamber due to lack of technical equipment to heat the room.
Your counterarguments show there are so many variables involved in producing the trace amounts of cyanide that the presence of bright blue, or moderately blue, or non-blue spots on the walls can tell us nothing about whether a room was used as a homicidal gas chamber. Whatever the claims may be as to the amount of Zyklon-B used in a typical homicidal gassing, or in a typical fumigation of a building, or for the delousing of clothes -- and these amounts do not appear to be settled -- they tell us nothing about the frequency of the gassings, which together with the strength of the gas, the exposure time, and the composition of the walls, all affect the problem. In short, the entire method you have employed cannot, and does not, establish whether or not a room was used for homicidal gassing.
Also here I must note that You have entirely omitted what I have wrote in my reply and to which, I see, You don’t have yet provided a precise answer but only very vague statements.
In reply to Your assertion that in disinfection gas chambers was employed a larger amount of Zyklon B than in homicidal gas chambers, and other wrong assumptions I have showed that:
1) According to Pressac same, in homicidal gas chamber was employed much more HCN than in delousing facilities; and according to Pressac these variables, not affected the question.
2) Due to lack of technical equipment to heat room and circulate HCN gas in homicidal gas chamber (the so called Degesch Kreislauf method apply in delousing chambers employing Zyklon B at Birkenau) the time of exposure of walls and superficies to HCN was minor in delousing gas chambers.
3) Due to cold present in the presumed homicidal gas chambers and for the same reasons descripted above, the Zyklon B have been subject to phenomenon of condensation and only a little, a very little amount, could be passed to gaseous state. Therefore, a large quantity of Zyklon B have been absorbed in walls and concrete superficies of homicidal gas chambers.
For all these reasons - and much others, which I can’t discuss here, as the lack of any and/or efficient ventilation system in homicidal gas chambers, as we seen in next posts concerning Pressac’s criminal traces - is without any chemical, scientific and technical reasonable explanation (and therefore historical) the presence of a major amount of cyanide in delousing chambers than in homicidal gas chambers, if not assuming that the Krematoria of Birkenau never have been employed as homicidal sites.
As for the frequency of the gassings, also here is possible prove some factual points.
For Pressac (cit. p. 183), in the Krematorium II alone could have been gassed some 400.000 human beings between 14th March 1943 and 27th November 1944. So considering (and according to witnesses) that in one single gassing, 2.000 people (i.e about 10 people for mq.!) were packed and killed for day and that crematoria ovens, for Auschwitz Museum researchers, cannot burn more than 1.440 bodies in a day (a number simply absurd, but that I don’t want discuss here) is easy to observe that at least 270 daily operations of gassings have been occurred. Pressac reduces the capacity of LK 1 at 1.000 people and reduces the capacity of ovens to approx. 1.000 daily cremations (on this point his confusion raises the apex: he vary the number of daily cremations from 288 to 1.500 in 5 different answers!), so the number of gassing operations is in reality 400. Assuming that not always the gas chamber was fully operational due the reduced size of transports, we can concludes with a certain degree of certitude that at least 425 daily gassings operations occurred in K II. According to Pressac (which relies on Hoess statement), some 5-7 kgs. of Zyklon B were employed for one single operation. Applying the lower number of 5 kg., we have a grand total of 2,125 t. of Zyklon B, also if Hoess states clearly that 7kg. were employed in great Krematoria (cfr. Nur.doc. NI-036) and this given a total 3t..
Also conceding that the delousing facility BW5a have been fully operational for mid 1942 to mid 1944 without pausing and assuming that, as Pressac seems say, at least 2 daily operations have been performed in this period, we have, a grand total of 1400 delousing operations i.e. approx. 3 1/4 times of the total gassing operations performed in K II homicidal gas chamber.
And here, I don’t want to care about differences between use of Zyklon B in disinfection gas chamber and homicidal gas chamber-
The maximum cyanide founded in the seven samples taken by Leuchter in LK1 of Krematorium II is: 0.00 mg/kg, i.e. ZERO. In other words, of this 2t. of Zyklon B we don’t have any chemical trace.
The cyanide founded in the comparison sample taken by Leuchter in delousing chamber BW5a is 1.050 mg/kg, i.e. 1.050 times more than the percentage founded in samples of KII.
I suggest that these dates deserves more attention and can’t dismiss without a more serious analysis.
3) You wrote:
(3) Furthermore, your argument is not helped by statements like this:
During the fall, winter and spring months, this outside ventilation air would have been considerably cooler than 78 degrees F. In addition, as Pressac admits, the "gas chambers" had no internal heating devices to prevent condensation. The temperature of the walls, floors and ceilings for much of the year would have been well below 78 degrees F.
Assuming, without conceding, that your generalizations about the temperature are accurate, haven't you ever noticed that when a whole bunch of people are packed in a room, the temperature goes up?
The temperature of Krakow region, as every polish member of this forum can confirms (also if he disagrees with my opinions), is very low for fall and winter months and surely considerably cooler than 26 ° Celsius in spring months. I remember that 4 years ago, when I was near Auschwitz/Oswiecim, at Makow Podhalanski (distant about 40 km. from Auschwitz) was snow: the calendar indicates the 10th April, the thermometer – 6° celsius.
Aware that when a whole bunch of people are packed in room, the temperature goes up?
Yes, I’m currently aware of this particular.
But this can explicate at best the vaporization of HCN. After 5 minutes, according to eyewitnesses the people was died, the mechanical ventilation starts (or the doors of the gas chambers were open to allow the entry of fresh air) and so the temperature in 1-2 minutes again go down. So Your objection is without factual, chemical, technical fundament. My objections are still there, intact.
4) You write:
Or this -- when I said:
The Germans considered some prisoners valuable enough to enslave and put to work, while others were killed. The Germans simultaneously maintained both slave labor subcamps and murder facilities at KL Auschwitz. Were you unaware of that, and therefore surprised?
Yes I’m very surprised because Your opinion is contraddicted and dismissed by…Pressac.
Commenting the German plan for a new Haftlings-Lazarett u. quarant ane-Abt.(Prisoner hospital and quarantine section") for Birkenau “Mexico” section prepared in June 1943 by the WVHA agency in Berlin, he states “There is INCOMPATIBILITY in the creation of a health camp a few hundred yards from four Krematorien where, according to official history, people were exterminated on a large scale (...) It is obvious that KGL Birkenau cannot have had at one and the same time two opposing functions: health care and extermination. The plan for building a very large hospital section in BA III ["Mexico" section] thus shows that the Krematorien were built purely for incineration, without any homicidal gassings, because the SS wanted to "maintain" its concentration camp labor force” (Pressac p.512).
You are mistaken. The quote you have given is missing material portions which change the entire context. In your quote, Pressac is saying that "that the Krematorien were built purely for incineration, without any homicidal gassings, because the SS wanted to «maintain» its concentration camp labour force." In the actual passage, Pressac is giving a version of a revisionist argument, in order to counter it. Your use of the quote, without providing the missing context, is a gross misrepresentation.
Here is the full passage from Pressac (at p. 512) for our readers to compare and contrast with your version. I have italicized the portion you quoted, and put Pressac's real conclusion is bold italics:
The drawing on Photo 20 is a real godsend for the revisionists. Concerning the initial arrangement for the third construction stage at Birkenau [KGL Bauabschnitt III], it formally states that this was to serve only as a mixed quarantine and hospital camp. There is INCOMPATIBILITY in the creation of a health camp a few hundred yards from four Krematorien where, according to official history, people were exterminated on a large scale. Drawing 2471 of a barracks for sick prisoners planned for BA.III [Photo 21] showing in detail the arrangement of the bunks, supports this demonstration. The two drawings date from June 1943, when the Bauleitung was completing the construction of the four new Krematorien, and it is obvious that KGL Birkenau cannot have had at one and the same time two opposing functions: health care and extermination. The plan for building a very large hospital section in BA.III thus shows that the Krematorien were built purely for incineration, without any homicidal gassings, because the SS wanted to «maintain» its concentration camp labour force.
This argument seems logical and is not easy to counter. The drawings exist, and what is more they come from the SS Economic Administration Head Office in Berlin, so it was no local humanitarian initiative.
One remark, however, and above all another Bauleitung drawing [Photo 22], contradict this plausible, but theoretical, reasoning. Life and death were such close neighbours in Birkenau that the only functioning hospital sector, B.IIf, was right next to Krematorien III and IV. The sick prisoners placed in the front row of this demential theatre knew that if there was a selection, or if they died, they would be reduced to ashes in these buildings.
It may appear paradoxical that prisoners should have received even a semblance of medical care just outside the Krematorien which had annihilated their relatives and could do the same to them at any moment, but this would be to disregard the capacity for «doublethink» [to use the term coined by George Orwell in «1984»] of the SS hierarchy, who blindly executed orders even when they were totally contradictory.
I don’t see none misrepresentation.
The explication given for this INCOMPATIBILITY (his capitals: here is Pressac who speak, not the revisionists) by Pressac is embarrassing: he say that we ought not to underestimate the capacity for “doublethink” (sic!) of the SS hierarchy, which blindly executed orders even when they were totally contradictory.
Earlier in this thread, I pointed out that the walls of Krema I at Auschwitz had a blue coloring. Lucius Felix Silla disagreed with me and said:
The walls of Krema I aren't blue. You have seen the Krematorium I in Oswiciem? I'm in Auschwitz in august of the past year and i can testify that don't exist any trace of blue clour in the walls. Everyone known this.
In other words, LFS is saying he knew better because he had been there. Most people would take his word for it, because after all, he was there. But when it comes to the testimony of witnesses who establish the existence of homicidal gas chambers at KL Auschwitz, there's a different standard -- a double standard.
Here's some testimony from folks who were in the concentration camp when it was operating, and were aware of the homicidal gas chambers. As LFS might say:
Everyone known this.
These are the accounts of just a few of the people who knew better because they were at Auschwitz -- not just visiting a museum where the concentration camp used to be.
A long series of links to “confessions” and “witnesses” is presented by Mr. David Thompson.
I will recommend to read the link dedicated to Mr.Bendel and titled, because is particularly instructive: Problematic testimony of Dr. Bendel
After a long discussion about the presumed incompetence of Mr. Carlo Mattogno [ David Thompson: “Mattagno's scholarship is very poor -- many of his footnotes do not support his claims at all, while other claims are referenced by footnotes to secondary sources and not to the original documents he describes
.” Sergey Romanov : “There's no question about Mattogno's very poor scholarship, I found egregious errors in his other works.” (
where, when? You can give examples? LFS)] is posted a long examination of Pressac of this eyewitness, which confirms the absolute lack of credibility of Bendel as testimony. We await their parry. An embarrassed silence follows.
This statement is like a confession: we don’t have documents, material proofs (here the topic is Pressac DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE, or more simply the existence of one documentary proof of the existence of homicidal gas chambers isn’t true?) but we have confessions (as Hoss, which say absurd things and affirms facts untrue and impossible) and eyewitnesses, so….
And...no, I don’t want knew better because I have visited Auschwitz: but surely, I don’t go saying that the Krematorium I have blue walls as a proof of the existence of homicidal gas chambers, because this seems from a photography of poor quality.