Murder of Russian children by Red Army troops

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Panzermahn
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Murder of Russian children by Red Army troops

Post by Panzermahn » 23 Feb 2004 14:58

Hi,

In Anthony Beevor's book, Stalingrad, the author mentioned that

Russian children some as young as 8 that helped German soldiers to fill up their canteens from the river Volga were shot by the the Russian snipers across the river...


Is this a war crime or crimes against humanity?

Could the Russians even killed their own children?


As far as i recall, the German Wehrmacht did not killed any German children especially sniping them out..

The closet thing to do this is the participation of the SS in the T4 program in exterminating mentally ill german children...

But the Russians were snipping russian children? ISn't this barbaric?

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Penn44
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Re: Murder of Russian children by Red Army troops

Post by Penn44 » 23 Feb 2004 15:08

panzermahn wrote:Hi,

In Anthony Beevor's book, Stalingrad, the author mentioned that

Russian children some as young as 8 that helped German soldiers to fill up their canteens from the river Volga were shot by the the Russian snipers across the river...

Is this a war crime or crimes against humanity?
The Germans using Russian children to fill their canteens could be a war crime. At a minimum, it is a disgrace to German arms. The Germans should have had enough courage to go fill their own canteens instead of sending kids to do it.

Put that in your book, Panzerhuhn.

Penn44


.

Panzermahn
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Post by Panzermahn » 23 Feb 2004 15:39

You're forgot one aspect, Penn...

The Germans rewarded the russian children with chocolates and bread for the task...

SUch unusual move by the members of the"Master Race" rewarding members of the "untermenschen" don't you think?

8O 8O 8O

xcalibur
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Re: Murder of Russian children by Red Army troops

Post by xcalibur » 23 Feb 2004 15:52

panzermahn wrote:Hi,

In Anthony Beevor's book, Stalingrad, the author mentioned that

Russian children some as young as 8 that helped German soldiers to fill up their canteens from the river Volga were shot by the the Russian snipers across the river...


Is this a war crime or crimes against humanity?

Could the Russians even killed their own children?


As far as i recall, the German Wehrmacht did not killed any German children especially sniping them out..

The closet thing to do this is the participation of the SS in the T4 program in exterminating mentally ill german children...

But the Russians were snipping russian children? ISn't this barbaric?
Yes, quite.

Perhaps the Germans didn't "snipe them out". But since we know that they were shot in pits there really wasn't any need for snipers.

Your post implies that somehow killing children is more humane when it's done by gas than by shooting. I really don't see the necessity of equivocation in these cimes.

I've had occasion in the course of my career to see dead children killed both by gunshot as well as natural gas asphyxiation. Neither one is more or less ghastly than the other.

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Penn44
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Post by Penn44 » 23 Feb 2004 17:21

panzermahn wrote:You're forgot one aspect, Penn...

The Germans rewarded the russian children with chocolates and bread for the task...

SUch unusual move by the members of the"Master Race" rewarding members of the "untermenschen" don't you think?

8O 8O 8O
Did Beevor state the children were rewarded with "chocolates and bread"?

No, I do not think that it was an unusual move for the Germans in question to exploit these children is such a manner. The said Germans would rather risk the children that risk their own lives.

Penn44

xcalibur
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Post by xcalibur » 23 Feb 2004 17:34

I'm still cracking up over "panzerhuhn" :lol:

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Post by David Thompson » 23 Feb 2004 18:21

Panzermahn -- You asked:
Russian children some as young as 8 that helped German soldiers to fill up their canteens from the river Volga were shot by the the Russian snipers across the river...

Is this a war crime or crimes against humanity?

Could the Russians even killed their own children?
(1) Your remarks on this subject presuppose that the Russian snipers recognized their targets as children. What is the specific evidence for this? Without such evidence, the only factual basis for the allegation is riflemen firing at moving figures in a combat position occupied by enemy troops.

(2) When you have a question like
Is this a war crime or crimes against humanity?
why not go to the research sticky at:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=26829

click on the citation to the 1909 Hague Convention on the laws of land warfare, and look it up? It's a great way to get familiar with the subject.

Aleksei22
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Post by Aleksei22 » 23 Feb 2004 18:25

Hello,



__________________________________________________
Hi,

In Anthony Beevor's book, Stalingrad, the author mentioned that

Russian children some as young as 8 that helped German soldiers to fill up their canteens from the river Volga were shot by the the Russian snipers across the river...
___________________________________________________


Pls, give me a Stalingrad map where did German soldiers were able to fill up their canteens from the river Volga .

Is it ( map ) - a " virtual reality " or product of Beavour's mad-brain ?

Thank you,

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Re: Murder of Russian children by Red Army troops

Post by Caldric » 23 Feb 2004 19:16

xcalibur wrote:
panzermahn wrote:Hi,

In Anthony Beevor's book, Stalingrad, the author mentioned that

Russian children some as young as 8 that helped German soldiers to fill up their canteens from the river Volga were shot by the the Russian snipers across the river...


Is this a war crime or crimes against humanity?

Could the Russians even killed their own children?


As far as i recall, the German Wehrmacht did not killed any German children especially sniping them out..

The closet thing to do this is the participation of the SS in the T4 program in exterminating mentally ill german children...

But the Russians were snipping russian children? ISn't this barbaric?
Yes, quite.

Perhaps the Germans didn't "snipe them out". But since we know that they were shot in pits there really wasn't any need for snipers.

Your post implies that somehow killing children is more humane when it's done by gas than by shooting. I really don't see the necessity of equivocation in these cimes.

I've had occasion in the course of my career to see dead children killed both by gunshot as well as natural gas asphyxiation. Neither one is more or less ghastly than the other.
Well to be fair and lets remain honest the vast majority of the German Military had nothing to do with the murdering of children or in the process of gassing them. I think Penn had the correct answer for it, the Germans should do it themselves instead of putting civilian children in danger. Which is a war crime I think. Would have to look again but placing civilians in direct and known danger is a war crime.

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Re: Murder of Russian children by Red Army troops

Post by xcalibur » 23 Feb 2004 19:25

Caldric wrote:
xcalibur wrote:
panzermahn wrote:Hi,

In Anthony Beevor's book, Stalingrad, the author mentioned that

Russian children some as young as 8 that helped German soldiers to fill up their canteens from the river Volga were shot by the the Russian snipers across the river...


Is this a war crime or crimes against humanity?

Could the Russians even killed their own children?


As far as i recall, the German Wehrmacht did not killed any German children especially sniping them out..

The closet thing to do this is the participation of the SS in the T4 program in exterminating mentally ill german children...

But the Russians were snipping russian children? ISn't this barbaric?
Yes, quite.

Perhaps the Germans didn't "snipe them out". But since we know that they were shot in pits there really wasn't any need for snipers.

Your post implies that somehow killing children is more humane when it's done by gas than by shooting. I really don't see the necessity of equivocation in these cimes.

I've had occasion in the course of my career to see dead children killed both by gunshot as well as natural gas asphyxiation. Neither one is more or less ghastly than the other.
Well to be fair and lets remain honest the vast majority of the German Military had nothing to do with the murdering of children or in the process of gassing them. I think Penn had the correct answer for it, the Germans should do it themselves instead of putting civilian children in danger. Which is a war crime I think. Would have to look again but placing civilians in direct and known danger is a war crime.
Agreed. I was merely trying to point out to Panzermahn that he was ignoring a Nazi atrocity in order to make the Russians seem equally (or more) "barbaric" than the Germans.

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Re: Murder of Russian children by Red Army troops

Post by Caldric » 23 Feb 2004 19:26

xcalibur wrote:
Caldric wrote:
xcalibur wrote:
panzermahn wrote:Hi,

In Anthony Beevor's book, Stalingrad, the author mentioned that

Russian children some as young as 8 that helped German soldiers to fill up their canteens from the river Volga were shot by the the Russian snipers across the river...


Is this a war crime or crimes against humanity?

Could the Russians even killed their own children?


As far as i recall, the German Wehrmacht did not killed any German children especially sniping them out..

The closet thing to do this is the participation of the SS in the T4 program in exterminating mentally ill german children...

But the Russians were snipping russian children? ISn't this barbaric?
Yes, quite.

Perhaps the Germans didn't "snipe them out". But since we know that they were shot in pits there really wasn't any need for snipers.

Your post implies that somehow killing children is more humane when it's done by gas than by shooting. I really don't see the necessity of equivocation in these cimes.

I've had occasion in the course of my career to see dead children killed both by gunshot as well as natural gas asphyxiation. Neither one is more or less ghastly than the other.
Well to be fair and lets remain honest the vast majority of the German Military had nothing to do with the murdering of children or in the process of gassing them. I think Penn had the correct answer for it, the Germans should do it themselves instead of putting civilian children in danger. Which is a war crime I think. Would have to look again but placing civilians in direct and known danger is a war crime.
Agreed. I was merely trying to point out to Panzermahn that he was ignoring a Nazi atrocity in order to make the Russians seem equally (or more) "barbaric" than the Germans.
Yeah I understand, Panzerman can make a person pull their hair out. LOL

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Michael Miller
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...

Post by Michael Miller » 23 Feb 2004 20:16

Yeah I understand, Panzerman can make a person pull their hair out. LOL

True, but I can't wait to get a copy of his book! Will doubtless be a laff-riot.

~ Mike

Caldric
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Re: ...

Post by Caldric » 23 Feb 2004 20:19

Michael Miller wrote:
Yeah I understand, Panzerman can make a person pull their hair out. LOL

True, but I can't wait to get a copy of his book! Will doubtless be a laff-riot.

~ Mike
I wonder if someone will actually publish it?

Panzerman: do you have a publisher yet? Also you must have the thickest skin of any one person I have ever met in my life.

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Post by robert knott » 23 Feb 2004 21:33

I see that the Volga is 2 km (over a mile) wide at Volgograd/Stalingrad. Isn't this too far for a sniper to identify, or more importantly shoot, a target on the other side?

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Post by robert knott » 24 Feb 2004 08:24

robert knott wrote:I see that the Volga is 2 km (over a mile) wide at Volgograd/Stalingrad. Isn't this too far for a sniper to identify, or more importantly shoot, a target on the other side?
I did a little checking myself and found that the maximum effective range for the Russian sniper's rifles was 1000 yards... less than halfway across the Volga. And, not to be crude... it was a very small target... http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/mnsniper.html

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