Qustion about Knight's Cross holders of Das Reich...

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Wolfkin
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Qustion about Knight's Cross holders of Das Reich...

Post by Wolfkin » 06 Jul 2002 23:02

...I am wondering. It is said that Das Reich members were awarded 69 Knight's Crosses during the war. But when I go to http://www.das-ritterkreuz.de/ and type in "Reich" only 43 names come up. Is the list not yet totally complete?

Or did some of these members not actually win the award while with Das Reich? This is what I wonder sometimes, if the numbers for each Division include members that won the award while not actually in that particular division.

A more accuarte way of calculating the recipients would be to use the Division that they were in when they won the award.

This is the way it is done at http://www.das-ritterkreuz.de/ , so I am guessing that maybe the list is not complete or, that Das Reich did not receive 69 Knight's Crosses and only 43!

From the site:

LSSAH-53
Reich-43
Totenkopf-41
Wiking-26
HitlerJugend-15
Hohenstaufen-13
Frundsberg-13

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Post by Mark V. » 07 Jul 2002 11:10

Hi Wolfkin
I am sorry to inform you (since you're apparently a Leibstandarte fan) that Das Reich actually received 72 KC along with 15EL and 3 swords.

Pz.Rgt.: 18+2EL
Der Führer: 16+4EL+1SW
Deutschland: 14+3EL+1SW
AA:5+1EL
Kdr.4+1(Ostendorf)+3EL+1SW
Pi.Abt.: 3+1(Schmelzer)+1EL
Art.Rgt.: 3+1EL
Stug.Abt.: 2
Flak.Abt.: 2
Pzjg.Abt.: 1
Langemarck: 1
Kradsch.Abt.: 1
Total: 72+15EL+3SW

The problem with the ritterkreuz site is that the list of Das Reich's KC holders doesn't include those that received it as a member of the Der Führer and Deutschland regiments, since they are both treated as different units. Similar is also with Wiking division (Germania, Westland regiments) and probably many other named regiments.

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Post by Tolga Alkan » 07 Jul 2002 14:19

Mark V. exactly right.Some members listed in other Divisions.

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Post by Mark C. Yerger » 07 Jul 2002 16:07

The confirmed awards with dates and components for "Das Reich" is in Weidinger's volume V. Gustavsson is not a KC so 72 is correct. See the listing of awards by unit in Krätschmer's SS KC book. A number of them got the KC or higher with the division and other grades at later or earlier assignments such as Kleinheisterkamp (EL holder), Kumm (SW holder),Krüger (SW holder), Steiner (SW holder), and Lehmann (EL holder). The division also has more than 150 German Cross awards credited and the only instance where an entire unit (squad) got the Roll of Honor Clasp.

Best
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Requin Marteau
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RK holders Das Reich

Post by Requin Marteau » 07 Jul 2002 17:34

15/08/40 : SS Ofhr KEPPLER Georg, Kdr SS IR (mot) "DF" i. d. SS Verfügungs Division (RK);
15/08/40 : SS Ofhr STEINER Felix, Kdr SS IR (mot) "D" i. d. SS Verfugungs Division (RK);
04/09/40 : SS Hscharf KEPPLINGER Ludwig, Stosstruppenfhr i. d. 11./SS IR (mot) "DF" (RK);
04/09/40 : SS Ostufü VOGT Fritz, Zugfhr i. d. 2./SS Aufkl Abt i. d. SS Verfugungs Division (RK);
04/09/40 : SS Stubaf WITT Fritz, Kdr I./SS IR "D" i. d. SS Verfugungs Division (RK);
14/05/41 : SS Hstuf KLINGENBERG Fritz, Kdr 2./Kradschützen Btl 2 (RK);
08/08/41 : SS Gruf HAUSSER Paul, Kdr SS Division "Das Reich" (RK)
25/08/41 : SS Uschaf ROSSNER Erich, Geschützefhr i. d. 2./SS Pz Jäg Abt 2 (RK);
13/09/41 : SS Stubaf OSTENDORFF Werner, Ia (1. Generalstabsoffizier) SS Division "Das Reich" (RK);
13/10/41 : SS Ostuf RENTROP Fritz, Kdr 2./SS Flak Abt 2 (RK);
14/12/41 : SS Ofhr BITTRICH Wilhelm, Kdr SS IR (mot) "D" (RK);
16/02/42 : SS Ostuf KUMM Otto, Kdr SS IR (mot) "DF" (RK);
31/03/42 : SS Brig Fhr KLEINHEISTERKAMP Matthias, Kdr SS Division "Das Reich" (RK);
31/03/43 : SS Ostubaf HARMEL Heinz, Kdr SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (RK);
31/03/43 : SS Stubaf TYCHSEN Christian, Kdr II./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
31/03/43 : SS Ofhr VAHL Herbert-Ernst, Kdr 2. SS Pz Gre Div "Das Reich" (RK);
31/03/43 : SS Hschaf WORTHMANN Karl-Heinz, Zugfhr i. d. 6./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
03/04/43 : SS Ustuf MACHER Heinz, Kdr 16. (Pi)/SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (RK);
06/04/43 : SS Ostubaf KUMM Otto, Kdr SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (E - 221);
06/04/43 : SS Hstuf KAISER Vinzenz, Kdr III. (gep)/SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (RK);
06/04/43 : SS Stubaf STADLER Sylvester, Kdr II./SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (RK);
06/04/43 : SS Hstuf WEISS Hans, Kdr SS Pz Aufkl Abt 2 (RK);
11/07/43 : SS Hschaf KLOSKOWSKI Karl, Zugfhr i. d. 4./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
30/07/43 : SS Hstuf SCHREIBER Helmuth, Kdr 10./SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (RK);
30/07/43 : SS Hschaf WEBER Alois, Zugfhr i. d. 16 (Pi)/SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (RK);
30/07/43 : SS Stubaf WISLICENY Günther-Eberhard, Kdr III./SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (RK);
14/08/43 : SS Uschaf GRASCHER Simon (+) , Zugfhr i. d. 9./SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (RK);
14/08/43 : SS Stubaf KNIEP Walter, Kdr SS Sturmgeschützabteilung 2 (RK);
14/08/43 : SS Uschaf THALER Johann, Panzer Fahrer i. d. 6./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
31/08/43 : SS Gruf KRÜGER Walter, Kdr 2. SS Pz Gre Div "Das Reich" (E - 286);
07/09/43 : SS Staf HARMEL Heinz, Kdr SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (E- 296);
16/09/43 : SS Ostubaf STADLER Sylvester, Kdr SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (E - 303);
17/09/43 : SS Ostuf d. Res GRIEME Willy, Kdr 6./SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (RK);
08/10/43 : SS Oschaf LAINER Josef, Zugfhr i. d. 3./SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (RK);
12/11/43 : SS Hstuf KESTEN Dieter, Kdr 6./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
13/11/43 : SS Hstuf BROSOW Siegfried, Kdr 1./SS Pz Pi Btl 2 (RK);
13/11/43 : SS Ostubaf Freiherr von REITZENSTEIN Albin, Kdr SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
01/12/43 : SS Ostuf RÖHDER Wolfgang Dr, Kdr 3./SS Sturmgeschützabteilung 2 (RK);
02/12/43 : SS Oschaf SIEGLING Alfred, Spähtruppenfhr i. d. 1./SS Pz Aufkl Abt 2 (RK);
10/12/43 : SS Stubaf TYCHSEN Christian, Kdr II./SS Pz Rgt 2 (E - 353);
10/12/43 : SS Hstuf HOLZER Friedrich, Kdr 1./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
10/12/43 : SS Stubaf d. Res KÄMPFE Helmut, Kdr III. (gep)/SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (RK);
10/12/43 : SS Hstuf d. Res LEX Alfred, Kdr I./SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (RK);
16/12/43 : SS Ostuf BOSKA Karl-Heinz, Adjutant II./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
16/12/43 : SS Stubaf SCHULZE Herbert, Kdr II./SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (RK);
16/12/43 : SS Hschaf SIMKE Willy, Zugfhr i. d. 5./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
12/03/44 : SS Ostuf d. Res SCHMELZER Heinrich, Kdr 2./SS Panzer KG "Das Reich" (RK);
11/04/44 : SS Ofhr LAMMERDING Heinz, Kdr Panzer KG "Das Reich" (RK);
21/04/44 : SS Stubaf WEIDINGER Otto, Kdr SS Pz Aufkl Abt 2 (RK);
04/05/44 : SS Ostuf d. Res ECKERT Hans, Kdr II./SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (RK);
04/06/44 : SS Ostuf GAST Wolfgang, Kdr I./SS Pz Art Rgt 2 (RK);
04/06/44 : SS Ustuf MÜHLECK Karl, Zugfhr i. d. 2./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
24/06/44 : SS Ustuf KRÜGER Joachim (+), Kdr 10./SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (RK);
11/08/44 : SS Ostuf KLOSKOWSKI Karl, Kdr 7./SS Pz Rgt 2 (E - 546);
19/08/44 : SS Ostuf MACHER Heinz, Kdr 16. (Pioner)/SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (E - 554);
23/08/44 : SS Stubaf ENSELING Rudolf, Kdr I./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
23/08/44 : SS Ostuf GROHMANN Franz, Kdr 1./SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (RK);
23/08/44 : SS Ustuf REEB Adolf, Zugfhr i. d. 7./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
23/08/44 : SS Oschaf RÜD Adolf (+), Zugfhr i. d. Stabskp/SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (RK);
23/08/44 : SS Hstuf WERNER Heinz, Kdr III. (gep)/SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (RK);
27/08/44 : SS Uschaf BARKMANN Ernst, Pz Kdt i. d. 4./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
27/08/44 : SS Staf KREUTZ Karl, Kdr SS Pz Art Rgt 2 (RK);
27/08/44 : SS Std Ob Ju LANGANKE Fritz, Zugfhr i. d. 2./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
27/08/44 : SS Uschaf SCHABSCHNEIDER Hans, Mun Staffelfhr i. d. 5./SS Pz Art Rgt 2 (RK);
02/09/44 : SS Staf BAUM Otto, Kdr 2. SS Panzer Division "Das Reich" (S - 95);
16/10/44 : SS Hschaf PEICHL Adolf, Zugfhr i. d. 12. (gep)/SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (RK);
23/10/44 : SS Stubaf KRAG Ernst-August, Kdr SS Pz Aufkl Abt 2 (RK);
26/12/44 : SS Ostubaf WISLICENY Günther, Kdr SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (E - 687);
26/12/44 : SS Ostubaf WEIDINGER Otto, Kdr SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (E - 688);
31/12/44 : SS Hschaf FRAUSCHER Franz, Zugfhr i. d. 4./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
25/01/45 : SS Ostuf GRESIAK Horst, Kdr 7./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
14/02/45 : SS Ostuf VEITH Johann (+), Kdr 3./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK);
28/02/45 : SS Stubaf KRAG Ernst-August, Kdr SS Pz Aufkl Abt 2 (E - 755);
28/02/45 : SS Hstuf SCHMELZER Heinrich, Kdr 1./Pz Pi Btl 2 (E - 756);
03/03/45 : SS Hstuf GUSTAVSSON Karl-Heinz, Kdr 3./SS Flak Abt 2 (RK);
06/05/45 : SS Gruf OSTENDORFF Werner (+), Kdr 2. SS Panzer Division "Das Reich" (E - (861));
06/05/45 : SS Staf LEHMANN Rudolf, Kdr 2. SS Panzer Division "Das Reich" (E - (862));
06/05/45 : SS Staf KREUTZ Karl, Kdr SS Pz Art Rgt 2 (E - (863));
06/05/45 : SS Stubaf WERNER Heinz, Kdr II./SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (E - (864));
06/05/45 : SS Ostubaf WEIDINGER Otto, Kdr SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (S - 150);
06/05/45 : SS Ostubaf WISLICENY Günther, Kdr SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (S - 151);
06/05/45 : SS Ostuf BASTIAN Heinrich, Kdr II./SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (RK);
06/05/45 : SS Hstuf d. Res DREIKE Franz-Josef, Kdr SS Flak Abt 2 (RK);
06/05/45 : SS Oschaf GEBHARD, Zugfhr i. d. 2./SS Pz Pi Btl 2 (RK);
06/05/45 : SS Stubaf HAUSER Hans, Kdr I./SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (RK);
06/05/45 : SS Ostuf KOCH Alfred, Kdr II./SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (RK);
06/05/45 : SS Strmm LANGE Günther, Gewehrfhr i. d. 16. (Pi)/SS Pz Gre Rgt 4 "DF" (RK);
06/05/45 : SS Hstuf MATTUSCH Walter, Kdr II./SS Pz Gre Rgt 3 "D" (RK);
06/05/45 : SS Ostuf RIEFLIN Fritz, Kdr 2./SS Pz Pi Btl 2 (RK);
06/05/45 : SS Hschaf SEIBOLD Emil, Zugfhr i. d. 8./SS Pz Rgt 2 (RK).

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Wolfkin
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Post by Wolfkin » 08 Jul 2002 02:54

Hey, thanks guys!

That's sort of what I thought. So, the site is correct, you just can't really type in a word to get all the recipients from a certain division, all at once.

Heehee, Mark V, yes I am a big Leibstandarte fan :), but I also like Das Reich, they were pretty good as well. Even though they had more Knight's Cross recipients than the Leibstandarte, I still consider the Leibstandarte the best. :)

Wow! Requin Marteau! That is an awesome list! All the knight's Cross, oak leaves and swords winners of Das Reich! Thank you!

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Requin Marteau
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Post by Requin Marteau » 08 Jul 2002 07:29

Hi, if you want I can send the 560 RK of Waffen SS ?

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Post by Mark C. Yerger » 08 Jul 2002 13:41

Not to create a stir or argument but "Das Reich" is the basis division of the Waffen-SS and destroyed more armor than any other division despite not having an operational tank unit in combat until 1943. "Pretty good" is rather an understatement.

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Wolfkin
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Post by Wolfkin » 08 Jul 2002 21:59

Hi Mark, this is not an argument, but just a friendly discussion.


I know, but one's favorite unit does not necessarily have to be the best. And it depends how one defines the best. I look at battles fought and effectiveness in battle. I know Das Reich had many exceptional battles, Kharkov, Kursk, Mius, Bogodukhov, Kamenets-Podolsk, Normandy, Ardennes. But so did the Leibstandarte. Kharkov, Kursk-where at Prokhorovka they practically destroyed the major part of the 5th Guards Tank Army, Zhitomir, Cherkassy Relief, Kamenets-Podolsk, Normandy- esp the counter-attack from Bourgebus Ridge, Ardennes.

Ok, both Divisions had exceptional battles but in my opinion some of the battles the Leibstandarte was in were some of the greatest in Military History. Awards are not necessarily a reflection of a units worth in combat. Well, I know that sounds silly :)!! Aw, heck, let's call it a draw! :)

Wolfkin

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Post by Wolfkin » 08 Jul 2002 22:01

Hi, Requin!

Sure, if you don't mind! That would be awesome!

Do you mean to email or post it on here?

Wolfkin

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Wolfkin
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I spelled Question wrong!!!

Post by Wolfkin » 08 Jul 2002 23:20

I just realized now that I spelled question wrong in the original post...

:oops: :oops: :oops: :cry: :( :mrgreen: :aliengray :roll:

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Re: RK holders Das Reich

Post by steph2 » 29 Oct 2005 21:49

Requin Marteau wrote:03/03/45 : SS Hstuf GUSTAVSSON Karl-Heinz, Kdr 3./SS Flak Abt 2 (RK);


I just found this thread searching for Gustavsson above.
That's a very swedish last name. Anyone knows his city of birth or where his parents came from?

Regards, Stefan

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