Does anyone know anything about Mogilev Podolski?

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » 10 Mar 2004 01:41

Hi All,

As the header say I am looking for info on Mogilev Podolski. Was it a death camp or labor camp. I have read Globocnik had order ovens and gassing equipment. As there is not much wrote about this place maybe someone could enlighten me. I have drove our local librarian crazy with requests. So any help would be greatly appreciated.

Raistlin

michael mills · Post by **michael mills** » 10 Mar 2004 04:03

Mogilev is a city in Belorussia.

During the German occupation, it remained under Wehrmacht control, ie it did not become part of Generalkommissariat Weißrußland, which was part of Reichskommissariat Ostland.

The German historian Christian Gerlach believes that there plans to construct an extermination camp there, to which all the Jews of occupied Europe were to be sent, but that the plan was abandoned. His proofs for his contention are however not conclusive.

There is some evidence of planning in 1941 to set up a concentration camp at Mogilev. There is also evidence of plans to deport the Jews of Europe to the occupied Soviet Union, but it is unclear whether it was to be to Mogilev; most of the remaining documentary evidence points rather to destinations in the White Sea area.

Furthermore, for the time of the planning in relation to a camp at Mogilev, there is no conclusive evidence of a german Government decision to set a central place of extermination for all Jews. There are many indications that as of the end of 1941, German Government thinking had not moved beyond the concept of wiping out the "Bolshevik" Jews of the Soviet Union.

The four 8-muffle ovens eventually installed in Crematoria IV and V in Birkenau Camp were originally ordered for installation in Mogilev, but were diverted to Birkenau after the plans for a camp at Mogilev were abandoned. However an exterminatory purpose cannot be concluded from that fact alone, since a total of 16 muffles would be excessive for a large concentration camp.

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » 10 Mar 2004 19:30

Hi Mr. Mills,

So was there a camp at Mogilev or was it just a planned camp ? I know there was labor and road camps in Belorussia . With Globocnik involvement does it not mean it was a SS camp ? I have read that Globocnik wanted to open a death camp at Mogilev . That he had ordered all the equipment for one but it went to Auschwitz instead.

Raistlin

michael mills · Post by **michael mills** » 11 Mar 2004 04:24

I think there was a labour camp, but it did not reach the planned size.

Globocnik did have authority in Belorussia, but only in respect of his function as supervisor of the program to build a number of military villages in which it was planned that SS-men would settle and become soldier-farmers. He did not have the same police authority there as he had in the Lublin District, so he would not have had command over concentration or labour camps in Belorussia.

I read something about Globocnik's function in Belorussia in the book by Christian Gerlach, "Kalkulierte Morde", but I cannot remember all the details.

On looking at the map, I see that there is another Mogilev, Moglilev-Podol'skii, situated on the River Dnestr, on the present border between Ukraine and Moldova. But Mogilev in Belorussia (a city a bit ti the East of Minsk) is the place you have in mind.

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » 11 Mar 2004 07:09

Hi Mr. Mills,

Thank you for your time and info.

Raistlin

David Thompson · Post by **David Thompson** » 11 Mar 2004 19:39

From ed. Gutman, Israel, The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, MacMillan Publishing Co., New YorK: 1990, pp. 985-87:

David Thompson · Post by **David Thompson** » 11 Mar 2004 19:45

Part 2:

David Thompson · Post by **David Thompson** » 11 Mar 2004 20:19

Here's the entry for the Belorussian Mogilev, from ed. Gutman, Israel, The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, MacMillan Publishing Co., New York: 1990, p. 985:

Kunikov · Post by **Kunikov** » 12 Mar 2004 06:01

michael mills wrote:Mogilev is a city in Belorussia.

I almost died laughing after I read that, hahaha. As David rightly showed below, it is city in Ukraine, a city my father and his side of the family is from actually. They were held there in a ghetto in the Vinnetskaya Oblast during the war, it was a ghetto, run by Romanians, they weren't as ruthless as the Germans so my grandparents survived.

michael mills · Post by **michael mills** » 12 Mar 2004 06:10

It is patently obvious that Raistlin's request for information really refers to Mogilev in Belorussia, not Mogilev-Podol'skii on the Ukrainian-Moldovan border.

It was at Mogilev in Belarussia that there were plans to set up a large camp to receive Jews deported from Europe. A number of Jews did actually arrive there, although the planned large camp did not eventuate.

It was for Mogilev in Belorussia that four 8-muffle cremation ovens were ordered, although they were in fact eventually installed in Birkenau camp.

Anyone who thinks there is no Mogilev in Belorussia is invited to look at a map.

Kunikov · Post by **Kunikov** » 12 Mar 2004 06:16

michael mills wrote:It is patently obvious that Raistlin's request for information really refers to Mogilev in Belorussia, not Mogilev-Podol'skii on the Ukrainian-Moldovan border.

It was at Mogilev in Belarussia that there were plans to set up a large camp to receive Jews deported from Europe. A number of Jews did actually arrive there, although the planned large camp did not eventuate.

It was for Mogilev in Belorussia that four 8-muffle cremation ovens were ordered, although they were in fact eventually installed in Birkenau camp.

Anyone who thinks there is no Mogilev in Belorussia is invited to look at a map.

Indeed, rest assured I know my geography.

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » 13 Mar 2004 00:58

Hi All,

I did not think to do an internet search to find out if there was more than one city was named Mogilev. I am interested in the fact was there a death, labor camp or a planned death , labor at Mogilev. I have seen some papers that Globocnik was either suppose to have setup a camp or had setup one up. I think Globocnik was a SSPF if so why was he to setup a camp ? Was it not under the SS-WVHA that set them up?

Raistlin

michael mills · Post by **michael mills** » 13 Mar 2004 01:38

I have seen some papers that Globocnik was either suppose to have setup a camp or had setup one up. I think Globocnik was a SSPF if so why was he to setup a camp ? Was it not under the SS-WVHA that set them up?

As I have previously pointed out, Globocnik had an official function in addition to his position as SSPF Lublin. This second function was to set up SS settlements in the occupied Soviet territories as soldier-settler villages; these were places where SS men would live permanently as farmers, and also control the surrounding area. This tole had been given to Globocnik directly by Himmler.

If Globocnik was setting up camps in the Mogilev area, they must heve been these SS soldier-settler establishments.

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » 13 Mar 2004 04:01

Hi Mr. Mills,

Yes I now know about soldier-farmer plan. But a judenlager is something different. I have found some papers saying Globocnik was to setup a judenlager at Mogilev. When I get a chance I will scan them and post them.

Raistlin

michael mills · Post by **michael mills** » 13 Mar 2004 04:22

Yes I now know about soldier-farmer plan. But a judenlager is something different. I have found some papers saying Globocnik was to setup a judenlager at Mogilev. When I get a chance I will scan them and post them.

I will look forward to cseeing them.

But I doubt that he could have set up a Judenlager anywhere in Belorussia, since he had police powers (including the power to set up Sonderlager) only in Distrikt Lublin in the Generalgouvernement.

Remember that German officials, including the Security Police, had specific areas of responsibility, and could not stray outside them without standing on someone else's toes.