Pre-War Crimes of the NKVD

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michael mills
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Post by michael mills » 12 Mar 2004 13:02

July 9: Divisional troops massacre Jews at L'viv:
This would be just over a week after German forces took L'viv and saw the evidence of the massacre of Ukrainian prisoners committed by NKVD troops (on a direct order from Beria, as Oleg tells us) before their flight.

As the Polish historian, Bogdan Musial, makes clear in his excellent and even-handed book, "Kontrarevolutionäre Elemente sind zu erschießen", is was the sight of theses Soviet atrocities (piles of dismembered bodies in the prisons, thousands of decomposed bodies disinterred from hastily covered mass graves) that confirmed in the minds of the recently arrived German soldiers the basic inhumanity and monstrosity of the regime against which they were now fighting. That confirmation justified in their minds the orders they had received to treat the Soviet enemy with the utmost harshness, and made them more willing to inflict the severest retribution on that enemy.

I note that certain posters on this forum whose outlook may fairly be described as philosemitic neo-Bolshevik constantly list the acts of violence comitted by German forces (which in itself is unobjectionable) while totally ignoring the context in which those acts of violence were committed, namely the consciousness of being involved in an existential conflict with a regime that had for many years been committing equal acts of violence, right up to the arrival of the German forces.

To ignore that context in which the German forces began to commit their own acts of savage violence represents a cynical falsification of history.

It might be protested that acts of violence against the Jewish minority in places like L'viv could not be justified by the crimes committed by the Soviet regime. That is a reasonable point of view, but it needs to be remembered that the Soviet population in general identified the Jews with that regime, and had directed their feelings of resentment against the Bolshevik dictatorship against the Jews ever since 1918. It should not surprise us, therefore, that German soldiers made the same identification.

I have just read an article in the 1999 issue of the periodical "East European Jewish Affairs" by a Michael Beizer, concerning the expressions of antisemitism among the population of Leningrad. The article showed that anti-Jewish sentiment was wide-spread among the common people of the Soviet Union and openly expressed during the 1920s, despite all the attempts of the philosemitic Bolshevik regime to suppress it through education and propaganda. Beizer shows that it was only the imposition of a brutal totalitarianism by Stalin at the beginning of the 1930s that finally crushed all manifestations of anti-Jewish feeling and drove it underground.

So the upshot of all this is, by all means list the acts of violence committed by German forces in their war against the Soviet Union, but remember that those acts were committed in the context of a struggle against a regime that had been committing similar acts for a long time, for far longer than the National Socialist regime in Germany.

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Kunikov
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Post by Kunikov » 12 Mar 2004 14:30

michael mills wrote:
July 9: Divisional troops massacre Jews at L'viv:
This would be just over a week after German forces took L'viv and saw the evidence of the massacre of Ukrainian prisoners committed by NKVD troops (on a direct order from Beria, as Oleg tells us) before their flight.
Ahh, so it took them a week to realize the bodies were indeed dead and massacred before they could start their own vengences of those so close to their hearts, who were of course the Ukrainians?

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Post by Samuel » 12 Mar 2004 14:51

michael mills wrote:To ignore that context in which the German forces began to commit their own acts of savage violence represents a cynical falsification of history.
But the German forces didn't begin to commit acts of savage violence with the invasion of the Soviet Union. They began more than a year before operation Barbarossa.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 12 Mar 2004 18:23

This would be just over a week after German forces took L'viv and saw the evidence of the massacre of Ukrainian prisoners committed by NKVD troops (on a direct order from Beria, as Oleg tells us) before their flight.
Ah.. if it was not for the fact that there were quite a few prominent Jews executed by NKVD alongside with Ukrainians at the same site….
As the Polish historian, Bogdan Musial, makes clear in his excellent and even-handed book, "Kontrarevolutionäre Elemente sind zu erschießen", is was the sight of theses Soviet atrocities (piles of dismembered bodies in the prisons, thousands of decomposed bodies disinterred from hastily covered mass graves) that confirmed in the minds of the recently arrived German soldiers the basic inhumanity and monstrosity of the regime against which they were now fighting. That confirmation justified in their minds the orders they had received to treat the Soviet enemy with the utmost harshness, and made them more willing to inflict the severest retribution on that enemy
so in retaliation the decided to massacre all Jews without regardless of age sex and actual political believes. As it seemed to Germans the most Bolshevik of the Jews were the ones who ran around the religious Jewish books around. Since before being massacred at Lvov orthodox Jews ( who have very specific look and who tri as hard as they might could not have anything to do with Soviet system) were repeatedly bitten before being shot –other were just shot.
I note that certain posters on this forum whose outlook may fairly be described as philosemitic neo-Bolshevik constantly list the acts of violence comitted by German forces (which in itself is unobjectionable) while totally ignoring the context in which those acts of violence were committed, namely the consciousness of being involved in an existential conflict with a regime that had for many years been committing equal acts of violence, right up to the arrival of the German forces.
Ah if it was not for the crimes that Germans committed in Poland –prior to invasion of USSR but I guess certain note that certain posters on this forum whose outlook may fairly be described judophobic neo-Nazi can ignore them since they don’t fit all too well with a concept that crimes were committed in course of fighting them evil Bolsheviks. How about the children at Belaya Cerkov’ Mills? What was their crime?
To ignore that context in which the German forces began to commit their own acts of savage violence represents a cynical falsification of history.
you mean systematic indoctrination of German soldier who was led to believe that them pesky Jews the greatest evil on earth?
That is a reasonable point of view, but it needs to be remembered that the Soviet population in general identified the Jews with that regime, and had directed their feelings of resentment against the Bolshevik dictatorship against the Jews ever since 1918.
What a load of c..p in general Soviet population associated Soviet rule with local representative of Soviet power. As for Russian anti-Semitism it was there before the Bolshevik revolution far prior1918 .
It should not surprise us, therefore, that German soldiers made the same identification
German soldier did not came to that conclusion on his own – he was told that it was so. (One might wonder how many Bolsheviks if any did German soldier saw prior to invasion of Soviet Union so that alleged by mills realization could have taken place). But then again were all Polish Jews Bolsheviks as well?
I have just read an article in the 1999 issue of the periodical "East European Jewish Affairs" by a Michael Beizer, concerning the expressions of antisemitism among the population of Leningrad. The article showed that anti-Jewish sentiment was wide-spread among the common people of the Soviet Union and openly expressed during the 1920s, despite all the attempts of the philosemitic Bolshevik regime to suppress it through education and propaganda. Beizer shows that it was only the imposition of a brutal totalitarianism by Stalin at the beginning of the 1930s that finally crushed all manifestations of anti-Jewish feeling and drove it underground.
yes the only thing is that anti-Semitism was there before 1917 –far before. An it is there now and the funny thing the most anti-Semitic of them all is actual neo-Bolsheviks.


So the upshot of all this is, by all means list the acts of violence committed by German forces in their war against the Soviet Union, but remember that those acts were committed in the context of a struggle against a regime that had been committing similar acts for a long time, for far longer than the National Socialist regime in Germany.
Ah if it was not for a fact that the “those acts” were committed against pretty much every social group rather than actual representative of the “evil regime”.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 12 Mar 2004 20:15

here is something interesting head of NKVD of the Lvov Region was .. Ukranian. Sergienko Image

Some other Ukranians in chrage of various regions of UkrSSR as of 02.26 1941

Chenigov Region – Dmitriev – Ukrainian
Kharkov region – Sfonov Ukrainian
Tarnopol –region Vadis –Ukrainian
Stanislav region – Mikhailov – Ukrainian
Nikolaev region – Tretiakov- Ukrainian
Kiev Rgion –Romachuk –Ukrainian
Zaporozhie – Groban’ – Ukrainian
Dorogobich region – Zachepa –Ukrainian
Volin’ – Belocerkovskiy - Ukrainian
Voroshilovgrad- Cherevatenko – Ukrainian
Vinnica region – Shablinskiy – Ukrainian

actually by the 1939 Jewsih presence in commanding NKVD rank is minimal
There were, for instance, 3 times as many Ukranians and twice as many Gerogians .

Which begs the quetsion if according to mills Ukranians were or so much bent on avenging NKVD victims - how cme they did not begin bashing each other?

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Post by Askold » 15 Mar 2004 22:55

Oleg:

Ah.. if it was not for the fact that there were quite a few prominent Jews executed by NKVD alongside with Ukrainians at the same site….

- Where did you get this? Funny how its not mentioned in any Jewish pubications. I would like your source on that and also on your list of "Ukrainian KGB".

- Also, you assume that english speaking members of the forrum cannot distinguish between Ukrainian and Russian last names and put up this BS:

Chenigov Region – Dmitriev – Ukrainian

- is not Ukrainian but russian

Kharkov region – Sfonov Ukrainian

- also russian

Tarnopol –region Vadis –Ukrainian

- must be the strangest Ukrainian name ever existing :) (Probably Jewish)

Stanislav region – Mikhailov – Ukrainian

- another russian

Nikolaev region – Tretiakov- Ukrainian

- russian

Zaporozhie – Groban’ – Ukrainian

- ethnic russian

Besides, Ukraine has 26 Oblast (regions). You mentioned 11. Out of which, 6 have clear russian names. So if we do the math here, that makes 21 oblast out of 26 with non-Ukrainian KGB officers.


And, since we got on this topic, let me put up some stats as well:

Head Command of Concentration Camps and Deporting Points NKVD (Glavnoe Upravlenie kontsentratsionnymi lageriami i ssyl'nymi punkatmi NKVD)

Head of main command - BERMAN Jakob Moisejevich
His 2nd in command - FIRI Samuil Jakovlevich
Head of camps in Karelia - KOGAN Samuil L'vovich
Head of GPU of Sov. Ukraine - KANTSEL'SON S. B.
Head of camps of Northern Region - FINKELSTEIN
Head of Solovetski Island Camps - SERPUKHOVSKI
Head of camps of Moskow region - PAPPORT, ABRAMPOL"SKII, FAJVILOVICH, ZELEGMAN, SHKLIAR.

My source:
Dikii Andrei. "Russko-Evreiskii Dialog" (Russo-Jewish Dialog) 2nd ed., New York, 1971, pg 125.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 16 Mar 2004 02:40

Askold wrote:Oleg:

Ah.. if it was not for the fact that there were quite a few prominent Jews executed by NKVD alongside with Ukrainians at the same site….

- Where did you get this? Funny how its not mentioned in any Jewish pubications. I would like your source on that and also on your list of "Ukrainian KGB".

- Also, you assume that english speaking members of the forrum cannot distinguish between Ukrainian and Russian last names and put up this BS:

Chenigov Region – Dmitriev – Ukrainian

- is not Ukrainian but russian

Kharkov region – Sfonov Ukrainian

- also russian

Tarnopol –region Vadis –Ukrainian

- must be the strangest Ukrainian name ever existing :) (Probably Jewish)

Stanislav region – Mikhailov – Ukrainian

- another russian

Nikolaev region – Tretiakov- Ukrainian

- russian

Zaporozhie – Groban’ – Ukrainian

- ethnic russian

Besides, Ukraine has 26 Oblast (regions). You mentioned 11. Out of which, 6 have clear russian names. So if we do the math here, that makes 21 oblast out of 26 with non-Ukrainian KGB officers.


And, since we got on this topic, let me put up some stats as well:

Head Command of Concentration Camps and Deporting Points NKVD (Glavnoe Upravlenie kontsentratsionnymi lageriami i ssyl'nymi punkatmi NKVD)

Head of main command - BERMAN Jakob Moisejevich
His 2nd in command - FIRI Samuil Jakovlevich
Head of camps in Karelia - KOGAN Samuil L'vovich
Head of GPU of Sov. Ukraine - KANTSEL'SON S. B.
Head of camps of Northern Region - FINKELSTEIN
Head of Solovetski Island Camps - SERPUKHOVSKI
Head of camps of Moskow region - PAPPORT, ABRAMPOL"SKII, FAJVILOVICH, ZELEGMAN, SHKLIAR.

My source:
Dikii Andrei. "Russko-Evreiskii Dialog" (Russo-Jewish Dialog) 2nd ed., New York, 1971, pg 125.
it is it is - serach better - http://www.jewish.ru/7081-2.asp as for where did I get "Ukranians" - tada!!! http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/reg2.htm#_VPID_176
not everybody whose name ends with "ko"is Ukranian (for instance http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/biogr/gb553.htm) and not everybody whose name ends with "ov"is Russian. Btw any specific reason why you posted pre-1939 memebesr of NKVD (most of whom were dead by 1940)?

btw: http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/biogr/gb326.htm
http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/biogr/gb459.htm
http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/biogr/gb545.htm
http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/biogr/gb235.htm
http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/biogr/gb252.htm
http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/biogr/gb20.htm
http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/biogr/gb173.htm
http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/biogr/gb52.htm


that would prove exactly what?

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 16 Mar 2004 05:17

In general the timeline for heads of Ukrainian NKVD is illustrative
1st Vsevlod Balickiy – Ukrainian was in charge 15.07.34–11.05.37
; executed by the orders from 27.11.37
2nd Israel Leplevskiy - Jew; in charge 14.06.37–25.01.38 executed by the orders from 28.07.38
3rd Alexander Uspesnkiy – Russian; in charge: 25.01.38–14.11.38; became fugitive on 14.11.38 found on 15.04.39 – executed by the orders from 27.01.40
4th Amayak Kobulov – Armenian in charge 07.12.38–02.09.39 executed on 01.10.54
5th Ivan Serov in charge 02.09.39–25.02.41 -the only one who died naturally in 1990

Obviously it was a dangerous job ( I am being ironic).
Btw Asskold –here is a very interesting character for you http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/biogr/gb433.htm

Savchenko Sergei Romanovich – Ukrainian. What is especially interesting - his position in1932-1933-1934. Deputy to the inspector of operational department of NKVD of Ukrainian Border District and armed forces of GPU of Ukrainian SSR. What were doing armed forces of GPU of Ukrainian SSR in 1932-1933-1934 – and what operations was the operational department planning in these years –eh Askold?

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Post by Askold » 16 Mar 2004 09:01

David:

Am not the one who side-tracked from the crimes of the Wiking division, I simply responded to a challenging comment. You should have prevented this before, however if you feel like making a separate thread from this, then you are welcomed to.

Oleg:

it is it is - serach better - http://www.jewish.ru/7081-2.asp

- Sorry, I don't take a simple online article (without any supporting bibliography) as a valid proof. Besides, this is a well known fact that vast majority of Jews in Lviv (and even some Ukrainians) welcomed the Soviets. As result, again, vast majority of Jews cooperated with Soviet regime.

not everybody whose name ends with "ko"is Ukranian (for instance http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/biogr/gb553.htm) and not everybody whose name ends with "ov"is Russian.

- A russian emigrant who settles in Ukraine is still an ethnic Russian. We are not talking about America, where everyone assimiates. There were many such immigrants who settled in East Ukraine and during "Ukrainization" period from the 20's picked Ukrainian nationality.

Btw any specific reason why you posted pre-1939 memebesr of NKVD (most of whom were dead by 1940)?

- Yes, with a purpose of showing who was in charge of the Gulags and behind milions of deaths. Anyhow, this does goes off the topic, if you want pursade this further, lets do make a separate thread, something like "Faces behind NKVD" or "Statistical percentage of nationalities working in KGB".

Cheers

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Post by Askold » 16 Mar 2004 09:05

Btw Asskold
- Whats this? A pesonal insult? Am deeply wounded, however, such comments should not be allowed.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 16 Mar 2004 11:15

Firstly
Sorry, I don't take a simple online article (without any supporting bibliography) as a valid proof.
–that btw from the person who used Staliniada as a source. But then it gets funnier
this is a well known fact that vast majority of Jews in Lviv (and even some Ukrainians) welcomed the Soviets. As result, again, vast majority of Jews cooperated with Soviet regime.
– so where is your sources – I really would like to see the method by which you managed to account for the activities of “vast majority of Jews”. That said my article contains specific names of the individuals and the organizations they belong to –why don’t you a little actual research for change and cross check it?
A russian emigrant who settles in Ukraine is still an ethnic Russian
you know the biographies in question actually contain time and place of a birth.

Comrade Dmitriev was born in Crimea in 1908, Comrade Safonov was born in Eakterinoslav in 1907, comrade Vadis was born somewhere in Kievskaya Gubernia in 1906, Comrde Mikhaylov was born in Lugansk in 1905, Comrade Tretiakov was born also in 1905 in Kharkovskaya gubernia, Groban was born in Makeveka –also in 1905 -those are not immigrants who moved in 20s or whatever and all these people in their passports in the graph nationality had: Ukrainian. And you thus far have not shown a single shred of evidence to prove the opposite.
Yes, with a purpose of showing who was in charge of the Gulags and behind milions of deaths. Anyhow, this does goes off the topic, if you want pursade this further, lets do make a separate thread, something like "Faces behind NKVD" or "Statistical percentage of nationalities working in KGB".
well you should not really gone there because t by 1939 – there were few Jews in NKVD –most of them were executed in 1938 and got replaced by Russian, Ukrainians and Georgians http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/stattab4.htm Blaming Jews for Lvov was well - strange. Really: Georgina Beria ordered Ukrainian Sergienko (who btw eventually became the head of entire Ukrainian NKVD) to kill certain categories of inmates – blame the Jews… Btw how about then Ukrainian NKVDists who were holding positions somewhere in the Russian North or Far East –you know the ones in charge of actual camps –such as these: Antonov-Gricuk – chief of NKVD jail system http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/stattab4.htm or Matuzenko - chief of Karelian NKVD http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/biogr/gb316.htm or Dekushenko –now this is the funny one chief of NKVD in Jewish Autonomous Region http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/biogr/gb134.htm or Sheredega and Kocupalo who were in turn in charge of NKVD of Ussuri region. Would you like to know how many camps were there?

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Oleg Grigoryev
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Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 16 Mar 2004 11:23

Askold wrote:
Btw Asskold
- Whats this? A pesonal insult? Am deeply wounded, however, such comments should not be allowed.
Insult? You find it to be insulting – me pointing the fact that high ranking NKVD official who happened to be Ukrainian in fact actively participated in foodstocks seizures from other Ukrainians?

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Post by michael mills » 16 Mar 2004 13:38

Oleg wrote:
well you should not really gone there because t by 1939 – there were few Jews in NKVD –most of them were executed in 1938 and got replaced by Russian, Ukrainians and Georgians
Oleg,

Can you give some more details on this development? I note from the link you posted that the number of Jews in leading positions in the NKVD declined from 32 in September 1938 to just 6 in July 1939. Since there are so few persons concerned, perhaps you are able to give us some biographical details eg who were they, and what was their fate.

I assume that if the persons concerned were executed between September 1938 and July 1939, it was related to the dismissal of Ezhov as Narkom Vnutrennykh Del and his replacement by Beriia in November 1938. However, Ezhov himself was not arrested until April 1939, and executed on 2 February 1940.

I have just finished reading a book "Stalin's Loyal Executioner: People's Commissar Nikolai Ezhov", by Marc Jansen and Nikita Petrov, which gives a lot of these details. The book states on page 186:
Another three days later, on 16 January [1940], continuing Ezhov's methods, Beriia for approval submitted to Stalin a list with the names of 457 "enemies of the Party and the Soviet regime, active participants in the counterrevolutionary, Rightist-Trotskiist conspiratorial and espionage organization," who were to be tried by the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court. Those 346 who according to Beriia's proposal were to be condemened to death included: Ezhov, together with his brother Ivan and his nephews Anatolii and Viktor babulin; Evdokimov, together with his wife and son;Frinovskii, also together with his wife and son; Zinaida Glikina, Zinaida Koriman, Vkadimir Konstantinov, Serafima Ryzhova, Sergei Shvarts, Semen Uritskii, Isaak Babel', and Mikhail Kol'tsov. The list also included the names of at least sixty leading NKVD officers.
The only persons named who I know were Jewish are Uritskii and Babel', of whom only Uritskii was NKVD (or was he? I know he was in the Cheka at one stage, but I do not know whether he stayed in State Security). But this list of persons to be shot dates from January 1940, ie after July 1939, by which date the number of leading Jewish NKVD officers had been reduced to six, according to the table linked by you. I do not see how the reduction from 32 to just six senior Jewish NKVD officers between 1938 and 1939 could be accounted for by the 60 leading NKVD officers singled out by Beriia to be shot in his list of 16 January 1940, unless the senior Jewish NKVD officers had all been arrested before July 1939 and held in prison until January 1940, at which time Beriia recommended to Stalin that they be shot.

The book also names some of the NKVD officers who formed part of Ezhov's coterie, and were arrested at the time of his downfall in 1938. The persons listed were (pp. 165-166):

22 October 1938: Gendin and Passov
23 October: Zhukovskii
25 October: Nikolaev-Zhurid and Listengurt
2 November: Shpigel'glaz (definitely a Jew)
5 November: Dagin
9 November: Evdokimov
10 November: Serebrianskii
13 November: Shapiro (definitely a Jew)
20 November: Trilisser (Jewish?)
28 November: Gorbach.

In addition, Litvin shot himself on 12 November, being replaced by Beriia's protege Goglidze (presumably a Georgian), and Uspenskii disappeared from Kiev, being arrested only on 14 April 1939.

The authors of the book do not identify any of the above by nationality, so it is impossible to be sure how many of them were Jewish. So we still cannot account for the reduction of leading jewish NKVD officers by 26 between September 1938 and July 1939.

On page 192, the book states:
After Ezhov's fall, hundreds of his direct accomplices and other NKVD officers were arrested. This goes for all of Ezhov's deputies and department heads. Almost all former NKVD chiefs of the Union and Autonomous Republics as well as the majority of the provincial NKVD chiefs and other leading executives were dismissed and convicted. In the autumn of 1938, between September and December, 332 leading NKVD executives had laready been arrested, 140 of them from the central apparatus and 192 from the provinces. Arrests continued in 1939; during that year 1,364 NKVD executives were arrested, 937 of them state security officers.
So it is quite possible that the 26 Jewish senior NKVD officers who disappeared between September 1938 and July 1939 were among the 332 leading NKVD executives who were arrested between September and December 1938; the dates are certainly right.

However, can we say that Beriia was conducting a purge specifically of Jewish NKVD officers? I think it unlikely, since Beriia was known for his philosemitic attitude, so much so that there were (false) rumours that he was of Jewish origin himself.

In fact, the basic attitude of the Soviet regime was still philosemitic, as shown by the following quote from page 184 of the book:
He [Ezhov] dragged many people along in his fall. Besides his nephews Anatolii and Viktor Babulin, who were arrested on 10 April [1939], a few weeks later, on 28 April, his brother Ivan, by then already having lost his job, was arrested in Moscow, accused of plans to murder Stalin and of counterrevolutionary and anti-Semitic utterances [my emphasis]
The above shows that anti-Semitism was considered as a form of counterrevolutionary attitude, and as bad as plotting to murder Stalin, surely the worst possible crime.

So, it seems that the reduction of senior Jewish NKVD officers from 32 to six was not really all that significant. The Soviet regime, and the state security apparatus under Beriia, remained pro-Jewish, with "anti-Semitism" still considered a capital crime, or at least as an excuse for condemning someone to death.

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Post by David Thompson » 16 Mar 2004 18:00

If some of the NKVD officers were Jewish, so what?

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Post by Askold » 16 Mar 2004 21:48

–that btw from the person who used Staliniada as a source.

- There is a difference between a specific researched event and general example (such as Gulag rebellion, that I provided). If you seriously claim there were Jewish victums from hands of Lviv KGB, then show me serious articles with an academic bibliography attached.

But then it gets funnier Quote:
this is a well known fact that vast majority of Jews in Lviv (and even some Ukrainians) welcomed the Soviets. As result, again, vast majority of Jews cooperated with Soviet regime.
– so where is your sources – I really would like to see the method by which you managed to account for the activities of “vast majority of Jews”.

- This was mentioned in number of Ukrainian books. To specifically search for such a general and widely accepted comment, would indeed be a waste of research time (its like asking - show me a book where it mentiones that Germans invated Europe :)

That said my article contains specific names of the individuals and the organizations they belong to –why don’t you a little actual research for change and cross check it?

- Not sure where to look for this info, however you seem to be better aware of the situation, so am waiting for orriginal source for that info (that is, where did the author got this from?)To take something that was "simply written in internet article" is not a legitimate proof.


Comrade Dmitriev was born in Crimea in 1908, Comrade Safonov was born in Eakterinoslav in 1907, comrade Vadis was born somewhere in Kievskaya Gubernia in 1906,

...yes, and their fathers were from where? (This gets into geopolitical debate, but those ethnic russians born in Ukraine even today, still don't see themselves as Ukrainians at any given point. This is common in every post soviet republic, ie. in Latvia Russians don't feel Latvian, but Russian, same in Estonia, Georgia ect.).

And you thus far have not shown a single shred of evidence to prove the opposite.

- So just because they were born in Ukraine you assume they are ethnic Ukrainians?

Blaming Jews for Lvov was well - strange. Really: Georgina Beria ordered Ukrainian Sergienko (who btw eventually became the head of entire Ukrainian NKVD) to kill certain categories of inmates – blame the Jews…

The so called "Petliura Days" (3 day pogrom of Jews in Lviv Ghetto) was a direct responce of the crowd toward seeing the murder of Ukrainin intelligencia. I think the local populaion was well aware of who was in service of KGB.

Btw how about then Ukrainian NKVDists who were holding positions somewhere in the Russian North or Far East –you know the ones in charge of actual camps –such as these: Antonov-Gricuk – chief of NKVD jail system http://www.memo.ru/history/NKVD/kto/stattab4.htm or Matuzenko - chief of Karelian NKVD

- Yes, you have scum in every nation.

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