How many Germans accused for war crimes in WWII

fknorr · Post by **fknorr** » 29 Mar 2004 21:11

Where would one find a definitive number of Germans either tried, convicted & sentenced (and/or aquitted)?

I read once a number, I think it was around 10,000...is that total war crimes (all nations?) or German?

David Thompson · Post by **David Thompson** » 29 Mar 2004 21:40

fknorr -- You asked:

Where would one find a definitive number of Germans either tried, convicted & sentenced (and/or aquitted)?

You won't find a definitive number for another decade or so. From time to time, war criminals are still being put on trial in Germany and Austria.

fknorr · Post by **fknorr** » 29 Mar 2004 21:58

...a ball park then?

Is the 10,000 close (for German Criminals only)?

Does anyone have a 'to date' number?

xcalibur · Post by **xcalibur** » 30 Mar 2004 02:27

fknorr wrote:Where would one find a definitive number of Germans either tried, convicted & sentenced (and/or aquitted)?

I read once a number, I think it was around 10,000...is that total war crimes (all nations?) or German?

See N. E. Toturow, War Crimes, War Criminals, and War Crimes Trials, 1985.

All the information you seek is there, although being 20 years old it doesn't reflect current the current totals.

He includes trials by (then) West German courts, as well as denazification trials, etc. As I recall, the numbers of persons tried are quite staggering, although so are the numbers of the accused acquitted.

Michael Miller · Post by **Michael Miller** » 30 Mar 2004 03:08

xcalibur~

Sounds like a very interesting book. Can you provide a little more information (page count, is it illustrated?, scope [just N.S. crimes or international?], etc.)? Is it something like an encyclopedia with listings of trials and defendants?

Tried to find it via abe.com but no luck.

Best,
~ Mike

xcalibur · Post by **xcalibur** » 30 Mar 2004 04:17

Michael Miller wrote:xcalibur~

Sounds like a very interesting book. Can you provide a little more information (page count, is it illustrated?, scope [just N.S. crimes or international?], etc.)? Is it something like an encyclopedia with listings of trials and defendants?

Tried to find it via abe.com but no luck.

Best,
~ Mike

Mike,

Referring you to the publisher's web page...

http://www.greenwood.com/books/author_d ... th_ID=4673

It's out of print but a copy can be had at Amazon (hardcover) for around $40.00. Well worth the price of admission.

Cheers,

X.

Eistir · Post by **Eistir** » 30 Mar 2004 17:13

There was thousands of "warcriminals" like for example Walter Reder.Or Knut Hamsun,or Alfons Rebane.

fknorr · Post by **fknorr** » 30 Mar 2004 17:30

Eistir wrote:There was thousands of "warcriminals" like for example Walter Reder.Or Knut Hamsun,or Alfons Rebane.

I am searching for a little more accurate figure, thanks.

xcalibur · Post by **xcalibur** » 30 Mar 2004 17:58

Some information on this subject can be found at:

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/overview_trials.htm

fknorr · Post by **fknorr** » 30 Mar 2004 19:23

Thanks for the link.

I know 'all' the information is not there but I found some of the numbers there misleading when you hear (speak of) "entire criminal organizations" like the Nazi Party and the SS...

Those numbers just do not seem to justify those proclaimations.

Rob - wssob2 · Post by **Rob - wssob2** » 30 Mar 2004 19:50

fknorr, why does it bother you that people consider Third Reich organizations like the NSDAP or the SS as criminal?

You don't think the Third Reich was a criminal regime?

Michael Miller · Post by **Michael Miller** » 30 Mar 2004 19:59

I too have some reservations about declaring the entire NSDAP- with its many millions of members- a "criminal" organization. Not even the IMT went that far.

~ Mike

WalterS · Post by **WalterS** » 30 Mar 2004 20:14

The Tribunal found the "Leadership Corps of the Nazi Party" to be a criminal organization. According to the Tribunal, the Leadership Corps consisted of the following:

The declaration sought against the Leadership Corps of the Nazi Party thus includes the Fuehrer, the Reichsleitung the Gauleiters and their staff officers, the Kreisleiters and their staff officers, the Ortsgruppenleiters, the Zellenleiters and the Blockleiters, a group estimated to contain at least 600,000 people.

Not every card carrying Nazi was thus declared a criminal, just those in positions of authority and responsibility who enabled the state to commit the crimes charged in the indictment.

The Tribunal concluded its findings against the Leadership Corps of the Nazi Party this way:

Conclusion

The Leadership Corps was used for purposes which were criminal under ,the Charter and involved the Germanisation of incorporated territory, the persecution of the Jews, the administration of the slave labour programme, and the mistreatment of prisoners of war. The defendants Bormann and Sauckel, who were members of this organisation, were among those who used it for these purposes. The Gauleiters, the Kreisleiters, and the Ortsgruppenleiters participated, to one degree or another, in these criminal programmes. The Reichsleitung as the staff organisation of the Party is also responsible for these criminal programmes as well as the heads of the various staff organisations of the Gauleiters and Kreisleiters. The decision of the Tribunal on these staff organisations includes only the Amtsleiters who were heads of offices on the staffs of the Reichsleitung, Gauleitung and Kreisleitung. With respect to other staff officers and party organisations attached to the Leadership Corps other than the Amtsleiters referred to above, the Tribunal will follow the suggestion of the Prosecution in excluding them from the declaration.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/p ... tm#general

fknorr · Post by **fknorr** » 30 Mar 2004 20:16

Do I think there were evil men (and women), evil plans, evil deeds...unquestionably yes...more like YES

but if you are going to say

Rob - WSSOB wrote:You don't think the Third Reich was a criminal regime?

, I am going to have to ask you to prove that the numbers actually prove that....

Let me state first that the holocaust happened, so I will not be accused of being a "denier"..

But go to the link provided in the previous post, add up all the numbers (except the denazification number...I think that was over the top in a lot of cases) and see total number of crimes befitting death/life imprisonment...those would be crimes against humanity...killing, etc

Now add up all the armed forces of Germany (20+ Million), now add the Algemeine SS, Police Units, HJ (which did take part in many final battles), Volkssturm, Foriegn Volunteers, Allies of Germany, Members of the Party (many just members to work/eat), etc, all those who could have potentially done the evil acts we are speaking of...once you come up w/that vast number, take the small (in comparison) number of those brought to trial over the past near 60 years and do the math and see what percentage you come up with...quite small I think.

I am not denying evil, not even saying that is was less 'evil' than you think it is...only that a small percentage of the whole (that you are proclaiming evil) committed these acts and that in a lot of cases we paint with a very broad brush.

WalterS · Post by **WalterS** » 30 Mar 2004 20:21

I think that the criminality of a regime should be judged by the scope of its crimes, not by the number of people who were convicted of committing them. The scope will show you how widespread involvement was.

Axis History Forum

How many Germans accused for war crimes in WWII

How many Germans accused for war crimes in WWII

Re: How many Germans accused for war crimes in WWII

book

Re: book

...