Looking at the development of this thread, I have a few remarks:
(1) panzermahn originally started the thread in this manner:
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20an ... r_II_2.htm
May 8, 1945: Germany surrendered unconditionally. The U.S. State Department wasted no time dismissing Switzerland as the official Protecting Power for German prisoners, contravening the Geneva Convention.
is this a violation of international law?
There are several problems with this approach:
(a) I have repeatedly asked you, panzermahn, to go to the Geneva Convention of 1929, read the text of it at the Avalon Project website or elsewhere, and then try to figure out what provision was violated before you ask questions like this. For some reason, panzermahn, you won't do the basic work. I do not propose to warn you again. I do intend to lock or delete your non-complying posts without warning.
(b) The next problem is that the website where this claim is found does not give any proof for the claim. If those claims were posted here, the thread would be locked and the author would be given 24-48 hours to come up with some proof. If he didn't the thread would remain locked. Do not give citations to websites which do not give sources for their claims.
(c) Another problem is that the website had a number of other undocumented claims that were demonstrably false and offensive. This distracts the reader from the topic of the thread -- the initial question posed by panzermahn -- and generates off-topic posts. If posters avoid giving citations to websites which do not give sources for their claims, we can avoid this problem.
As a result of these problems, we still have no proof that the initial premise of this thread -- "The U.S. State Department wasted no time dismissing Switzerland as the official Protecting Power for German prisoners, contravening the Geneva Convention" -- is even true.
Needless to say, under these conditions, the war crime question hasn't been answered either. So, the lesson that I have drawn from this experience is that it is easier to lock a non-complying thread like this than it is to post a lengthy explanation -- again -- of why threads like this are undesirable.
(2) That gets us to the more interesting material posted by Ostuf. Charlemagne. I think it can be taken for granted that there were individual cases of mistreatment or even murder of POWs. These individual cases should be examined and the perpetrators should be condemned. The real question is whether there is evidence that there was a criminal policy adopted by one or another country to violate the laws and customs of war.
If it were not for this more interesting material I would already have locked this thread. Here are the propositions which interest me:
The western allies had more than 5 millions german POWs at the end of the war . This number was reduced to 3.800.000 by eisenhower thanks to an administrative trick ,calling these POWs “disarmed enemies forces” so they were not POWs anymore and they were denied the survey of international Red Cross ,which is exactly what Panzermahn is talking about .
Is this allegation true? What is the proof?
In May 45 ,the swiss Red Cross had more than 100.000 tonns of food ready to ship to the german POWs in US camps in Germany and France and the swiss started to send some of these loads ...the US Military Government in Germany sent back whole trains of food to the Swiss Red Cross ,forbidding more shipments . Why ? If I was the military commander of a POWs camp ,I would be happy if somebody else was going to pay for the food of my prisonners . (Sources : “Dunant’s Dream” by Caroline Moorehead , Carroll & Graf , New York ,1999) Another evidence of a pre-plan of starvation .
Can anyone locate this passage and post it? Is there any more detail on the incident; for example, who were the officers who turned back the trains and what reasons did they give. Did this happen just once, or repeatedly?
Up til the end of 1945 ,Eisenhower forbiden the german POWs to send letter to their families .... Why ? Could it be because he knew that lot of them weren’t going to be alive in some months ??
Is this allegation true? What is the proof?
According to the rules of war ,the army of general Patton started liberating german POWs at the end of the war .... Patton get called to attention by his superiors and those POWs were recaptured . This is a clear evidence that: a) The convention of Geneva wasn’t respected by US forces ,and :b) It existed some orders from the very top for either an extermination of german POWs by “natural” starvation or to use them as nearly unfeed slave labor which means death ,soon or later .
Are these allegations true? What is the proof?
Another voluntary breaking of the Convention of Geneva ,so ,technically ,a war crime ...anyway ,12.000 waffen-SS POWs will die only at Ebensee ,as it is remembered today by a stele ,there . But in 1990 ,in his denial of Bacques , Stephen Ambrose stated stupidely that only 4537 german POWs had died in Ike’s camps , i.e. a mortality toll of 1,46 % ( for a number of 3.097.000 POWs ,the others ones were already deads and 700.000 had been gived to the frenchs ) ,well ,I am sorry but Ebensee only is enough to shows that Ambrose IS a LIER . Period .
What is the source for Ambrose's statement? What is the source for the number on the Ebensee stele?
where were buried the corpses of the hundreds of thousands missing german POWs of the allies
Where are the germans missing POWs ? Most were clandestinely buried ,sometimes in mass graves . After that the US sowed lots of pinewood ,as did the russians at Katyn . As an evidence ,near the ex- US manned POWs camp of Lambach ,in Austria , in 1996 , many skeletons were found under pinewood (those pine threes were aged about 50 years ...how strange .) At first ,and because of their teeths ,it was dictamined that they were skeletons of german POWs from the camps .Then the austrian government contacted the jewish community ( I wish they had contacted the Pope ,because now someone will scream about “antisemitism”...) which concluded to some jewish victims of the nazis ...too sad that this was later proved as a balloney . So the austrian government settled everything in an official conclusion : They were the remains of some soldiers of the 30 Years War .... even if some skeletons had good , german ,dental prothesis of the 20th century .
We need to get solid figures about the number of POWs that are supposed to be missing, and the basis for the conclusion that they were "missing."
Here two pics of two funeral urns from two germans who died – somedays after the war - in the french POWs camp of the Mont Saint Michel . Their corpses were burned ( ah ,the allies used crematoriums too !!!) and may be find today in the german cemetery of the same city .
So if Bacques is lying - as you claim - , may I ask you , Xcalibur , WHAT WERE DOING IN A POW CAMP AN OLD MAN OF 87 YEARS OLD ( Karl Schroder) AND A TWO YEARS BABY ( Camille Fuchs) ???
The suggestion here is that civilians were confined in a POW camp. This allegation is different from the ones in (a) through (f), which dealt with the fate of POWs rather than civilians. The question this allegation raises is whether the French camp at Mont Saint Michel was exclusively for POWs, or whether it was a DP (Displaced Persons) camp, or what.
Let's focus on these questions, and avoid personalizing posts.