Russian Military losses

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Re: Russian Military losses

Post by Art » 20 Aug 2021 07:33

AriX wrote:
19 Aug 2021 21:22
According to the Data Base "Memorial" there are 14 000 000 records of enlisted and officers , whom were KIA, DOW, MIA or had died in captivit during WW2.
Yes, for example, there are three records of lieutenant general Ivan Nikolaevich Muzychenko as missing in action in August 1941. Who was actually repatriated to the USSR and lived until 1970.
https://generals.dk/general/Muzychenko/ ... Union.html
So 3 records - 1 person - 0 casualties.
Unless you have 1-1-1 correspondence these numbers don't mean a thing.
I'm not really sure where 14 million came from. My count yields about 11 million records in lists of casualties.

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Re: Russian Military losses

Post by AriX » 20 Aug 2021 15:25

Art wrote:
20 Aug 2021 07:33
I'm not really sure where 14 million came from. My count yields about 11 million records in lists of casualties.
I had add all entries in the DB by their rank.

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thorwald77
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Re: Russian Military losses

Post by thorwald77 » 20 Aug 2021 22:10

AriX wrote
I had add all entries in the DB by their rank.
This makes sense when you include the POWs that were released and deserters. Also the casualty figures for 1941-42 were estimated according to Krivosheev because the accounting system broke down.
Among the POWS released were people working for Germany who were conscripted again. They were sent to penal units, executed or imprisoned as deserters. Also there were deserters such as Vlasovites that died in the German uniform and POWS that remained in western countries after the war. There are an unknown number of personnel discharged who died of wounds and paramilitary such as militia and partisans. The Russians have never given a detailed accounting of all Soviet losses.

In Russia they say the military lost 8.6 million
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pets_of_V ... 10-11).jpg

Outside of Russia they say that dog won't hunt

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Re: Russian Military losses

Post by Art » 21 Aug 2021 08:16

thorwald77 wrote:
20 Aug 2021 22:10
Also there were deserters such as Vlasovites that died in the German uniform and POWS that remained in western countries after the war.
Included in demographic losses of the military.
There are an unknown number of personnel discharged who died of wounds and paramilitary such as militia and partisans.
Not military losses by definition chosen. From a purely methodical point of view - how would you count them if there were no reporting?

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Re: Russian Military losses

Post by Art » 21 Aug 2021 08:20

AriX wrote:
20 Aug 2021 15:25
I had add all entries in the DB by their rank.
By all records or some sections? The total number of all records should be more than 14 million.
For example, Soviet losses in Soviet-Japanese war in 1945 are numbered as aprox. 13 000 KIA and DOW, while there are 28 000 Soviet war graves in Northern China and N.Korea.
As I understand, cataloged burials include dead from the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905 and Soviet garrisons of post-war period.

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Re: Russian Military losses

Post by AriX » 21 Aug 2021 09:28

Art wrote:
21 Aug 2021 08:20

As I understand, cataloged burials include dead from the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905
No.

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Re: Russian Military losses

Post by Art » 21 Aug 2021 11:22

That was an official information:
On the territory of this country, there are 79 military memorial sites, including 58 military graves and 21 monuments. The military graves contain the remains of 24,779 Soviet and Russian servicemen who died in China since 1904, of which 17,843 were buried as unknown.
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/ ... clnk&gl=ru

Location of burials as well as name lists can be found here:
http://www.russia.org.cn/ru/voenno-memorialnaya-rabota/
For example, of 345 men buried at the Dalyan cemetery 40 died in 1945, 112 at 1946, 178 at 1947-49, 15 after 1949
http://www.russia.org.cn/wp-content/upl ... untsze.pdf

Some graves even pertain to Soviet military involvement in China during 1930s

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Re: Russian Military losses

Post by Art » 21 Aug 2021 11:35

And the largest military cemetery at Lüshunkou contains the graves of Russian/Soviet military:
25 men who were killed/died during the Boxer rebellion (1900-1901)
15 058 - in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905
170 in the Soviet-Japanese War of 1945
634 in 1946-1949 (Soviet garrison)
249 in the Korean War (1950-53).
https://pomnirod.ru/materialy-k-statyam ... D0%B9.html

It seems that burials from the Russo-Japanese War account for the bulk of 17,843 "unknown" mentioned in the previous message.

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Re: Russian Military losses

Post by AriX » 05 Sep 2021 21:48

Official data on the Soviet military casulties in war against Germany from 1945
ImageImage
From left to right : KIA, MIA, POW, non-combat deaths, total | WIA, sick, frostbitten, total.
Vertical columns : Officers, NCO's, Privates, total.

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