Croatian Naval Legion (split from 'Best German Ally')

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
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Victor
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Post by Victor » 06 May 2004 19:58

Allen Milcic wrote:Hi Victor:

Would you have an exact date for that attack? Did it occur early in 1944?

Allen/


11 May 1944

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Allen Milcic
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Post by Allen Milcic » 07 May 2004 16:14

Victor wrote:
Allen Milcic wrote:Hi Victor:

Would you have an exact date for that attack? Did it occur early in 1944?

Allen/


11 May 1944


Hi Victor:

The following information regarding the return of the Croatian Naval Legion has come to light (and thank you for pointing out the discrepancy in the dates - my article was written some years ago, and needs updating!):

The Croatian Naval Legion was ordered to return to Croatian waters in October, 1943, and this was done in 4 phases, the final men leaving the Black Sea on May 21, 1944 (!). Note that the coastal battery was returned in February 1944, and was based in Split upon its arrival in Croatia.

The following is also newer information that I will need to incorporate into the updated article:

In mid-1943 the Naval Legion received 12 'submarine hunting' vessels from Germany (100 ton displacement), registered as UJ2301 - UJ2311, plus UJ2314, and was renamed the '23. Submarine Hunting Flotilla' (Unterseebott-jagerflotille 23). [source - Hrvatske Oruzane Snage 1941-1945 by Mikulan/Pogacic]I will update my article and post the full copy for review.

Best regards,
Allen/

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Victor
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Post by Victor » 07 May 2004 16:24

So those KFKs could have been Croatian.

I would like to propose to make a separate thread about the Croat Naval Legion, by splitting the posts related to the subject from this one.

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Allen Milcic
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Post by Allen Milcic » 07 May 2004 16:53

Done!

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Chris Dale
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Post by Chris Dale » 09 May 2004 17:37

Here's a photo I found of the Croatian Navy in the Osprey Men At Arms 282 "Axis Forces in Yugoslavia 1941-45". It aslo says they wore Yugoslav Royal Navy uniforms with Croatian insignia.
Chris
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Allen Milcic
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Post by Allen Milcic » 09 May 2004 21:48

The updated article can be read here:

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=5019

Chrispaulodale:

The photo is of the NDH Navy (late in the war), and not of the Naval Legion.

Best regards,

Allen/

Orlov
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Post by Orlov » 19 Oct 2005 15:54

Who knows about second part of HPL who located in Yalta and service at the Black Sea (not Azow Sea, where fight part based at Gieniczewsk)?

REgard
Orlov

ceaver14
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Have you heard this?

Post by ceaver14 » 27 Feb 2006 19:11

My fathers uncle was in the Croatian legion in the black sea. He repeated to me on a few occasions his experiences there, I thought someone might be able to help me verify the story. His name was Ante Basic, he marched from croatia to Bulgaria. Three times the shipps that he served on were sunk. In at least one of the sinkings, he saved several sailors and was awarded, he may have been at the mine laying accident i'm not sure. His last vessel went up the volga to support the German attack on Stalingrad. His vessel was either destroyed or they decided to disembark and joined the Croatin legion in Stalingrad. Maybe there was a group of Croatian navy men who decided to join the 369th rather than return to Croatia, or maybe they went there for naval support, i'm not sure, its been a while since I spoke to him and he has been dead for a few years now. He fought with the 369th and when the russians encircled and the end was near, him and approximately 100 other croatian soldiers put on russian uniform and simply walked out of the siege. They were transferred to Croatia where Ante Pavelic held a dinner in their honor and Stepinac held a mass for them. He was transfered to the adriatic where he says his crew sunk 2-3 american vessels. When the war was over, he threw the decoration ( I think zvonimir) given to him by Pavelic into the sea, so that the Partisans wouldnt find it on him. His story, is truly amazing, I would like to back it up with any facts available to forum members. The fact that members of the Croatian naval legion went up the volga might be a previously unknown fact. Maybe they were sent to re-supply the sixth army since the Luftwaffe was failing. I would appreciate any info. Thanks, Michael

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Post by Larry D. » 27 Feb 2006 23:26

......I would like to back it up with any facts available to forum members...........I would appreciate any info. Thanks, Michael.
Hi Michael,

Although I have a 2-inch thick folder on the NDH Navy that I assembled over many years and was fortunate in having personal correspondence 25 years ago with Kapetan b.b. Andro Vrkljan, the commander of the Black Sea Legion, I will not critique your post. That's your dad you are talking about. Our dads and uncles are our heros. Whatever they say goes and that's what we should go with. I think it would be a terribly cruel thing for someone to come along 60 years after the fact and poke holes in some deceased veteran's account of his wartime service. I strongly recommend you just let things be. The Hrv. Primorski Leg. served on the Black Sea for 2½ years facing hostile fire and dangerous wartime conditions. The survivors all returned to the Domovina in spring 1944 as heros and that is the way it should remain.

Regards,

--Larry

ceaver14
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Post by ceaver14 » 28 Feb 2006 02:56

Larry I appreciate your concern. Niether I nor my father were extremely close with him. I met him maybe 4 times in my life but every time he told me that same story. I dont need to know from emotional point of view; more from a historical and military point of view. Did Croatian Navy boats drive up the Volga to aid the 6th army? If so, its a great story and I would like to know more.....

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Post by Larry D. » 28 Feb 2006 16:05

ceaver14 wrote:Larry I appreciate your concern. Niether I nor my father were extremely close with him. I met him maybe 4 times in my life but every time he told me that same story. I dont need to know from emotional point of view; more from a historical and military point of view. Did Croatian Navy boats drive up the Volga to aid the 6th army? If so, its a great story and I would like to know more.....
Hi Michael,

Okay, don't say I didn't warn you.

The H.P.O. was never anywhere near the Volga or Stalingrad. Its little vessels never left the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea. There is no mention in any of the H.P.O. personnel volunteering for of going to Stalingrad either. The histories cited below are quite complete. Further, in all of the dozens and dozens of accounts of the campaign in and around Stalingrad is there any mention of German boats operating on the Volga. Everything that moved on the Volga was attacked by the Luftwaffe. The river was 100% in Russian hands.

The Hrvatski Pomorski Odjel (H.P.O.) operated almost exclusively on the Black Sea, but from Dec 41 to Dec 42 it had under its command (HQ in Mariupol) 45-55 small motor fishing cutters on the Sea of Azov, each with a crew of 3 Ukrainians. The Ukrainians operated the boats for the HPO but belonged to Pz.AOK 1. These tiny vessels, which operated under sail most of the time due to endless engine problems, patrolled the coast, guarded harbors, cleared mines and ran cargo from Genichesk and Mariupol across the sea to Yeisk and other ports in North Caucasia. (Doadmiral Andro Vrkljan letter to me dated 10 November 1980, in German).

Lastly, the Croatian naval group in the North Adriatic never sank any American vessels. Their service there was mainly taken up in training, operating a few old clapped out former Italian torpedo boats around Rijeka, mutiny, mass desertions and one court-martial after another during January and February 1945. The German Navy Schnellbootflotilla based at Triest and manned by Croatians with German supervision, which never really came to action of any sort, deserted to the British in North Italy at the end of April 1945 as Tito’s 4th Army approached Triest.

Sources:
Arhiv Vojniistorijski institute Beograd – “Mornarica bivše NDH”, in Kutija 134a, fond 1, dok.6.
Lohmann, Walter and Hans H. Hildebrand. Die Deutsche Kriegsmarine 1939-1945. Bad Nauheim: Podzun Verlag, 1956.
Meister, Jürg. Der Seekrieg in den osteuropäischen Gewässern 1941-45. München: J.F. Lehmanns Verlag, 1958. pp.245, 258, 294 and 376.
Meister, Jürg. “Die jugoslawische Marine in der Adria 1941-45”, in Marine Rundschau, Juni 1963, pp.137-52. (This is actually a full account of the naval war in the North Adriatic and along the Dalmatian coast).
St. Martin (pseud.). "Kroatische Marine-Legion (Hrvatski Pomorski Odjel)", in Zeitschrift für Heeres und Uniformkunde, Heft XVII (1953), pp.68-70.
Vrančić, Vjekoslav. “Argonauti Dvadesetoy Stoleća” (Argonauts of the Twentieth Century), in Drina (Madrid), Godina XVII (1967), br. 1-2, pp.25-37.

Here are a couple of links for some additional background information:

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=5019
http://www.feldgrau.com/articles.php?ID=13

Hope this helps,

--Larry

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Allen Milcic
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Post by Allen Milcic » 28 Feb 2006 17:51

Hello gentlemen:

I must concur with Larry - there has been no indication in any of my research that any elements of the Pomorska Legija were anywhere near Stalingrad. This includes no mention of them in the War Diary of the 369th Infantry Regiment (Croat).

Best regards,
Allen/

Orlov
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Post by Orlov » 08 Mar 2006 17:47

Hello,
Who knows about HPL's base located in Yalta and service at the Black Sea (not Azow Sea, where fight part based at Gieniczewsk)?

bestreg
Orlov

Larry D.
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Post by Larry D. » 08 Mar 2006 17:53

Orlov wrote:Hello,
Who knows about HPL's base located in Yalta and service at the Black Sea (not Azow Sea, where fight part based at Gieniczewsk)?
bestreg
Orlov
See the sources listed in my 28 Feb 06 post, above. Beyond that, you will have to go to Germany and use the archival material of the various KM commands and sub-commands stationed in the Black Sea area.

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marinac
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Post by marinac » 05 Feb 2008 08:20

http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:aYm ... cd=5&gl=sg

some pictures and info about Croatian Naval Legion
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