allied war crime in italy

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Hannes
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allied war crime in italy

Post by Hannes » 08 May 2004 18:17

I learned of an incident when Empire troops had captured 30 Waffen-SS men of the 16. SS-Pz. Grenadier-Division “Reichsführer-SS” in the Rosigno area south of Livorno in July 1944. After separating the Volksdeutsche the prisoners were killed by explosive charges. Is this war crime mentioned in the division’s history „Im gleichen Schritt und Tritt“? Has anybody information on this incident?

Hannes

c.g.
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Post by c.g. » 09 May 2004 11:20

No, I have the book but this case is not mentioned there.
I also have the complete set ot the casualties lists of the division for Summer 1944 and didn't find anything that might hint towards a crime of this kind being perpetrated against members of the division by Allied troops. It is also true, on the other hand, that the fightings in the Cecina-Rosignano area during the first half of July were very hard and probably quite vicious. There were heavy losses on both sides. The SS troops were composed mostly by 17-18 years old draftees with many ethnic Germans among them and were kept at tight leash by their more seasoned officers and NCOs. Many of the latters were veterans of the Totenkopf, Polizei, Das Reich and Leibstandarte divisions, as well as from the Kommandostab units of the RFSS. Quite many officers and NCO had concentration camps experience. In some US Army Interrogation Reports of POW from the 16. RFSS, the captured young soldiers have declared that they were prevented at gunpoint by Officers and NCOs from running over to the Americans.
Following units of the RFSS were engaged in the Rosignano area:
SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 35, Stab, I., II., III. Bn
SS-Nachrichten-Abteilung 16
SS-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 16
SS-Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 16
On the US Army side it should have been - I am not completely sure about it - 1st Armored and 34th Infantry.

I hope this helps a bit, if you have more precise information on this alleged war crime, I would be pleased to hear from you on this.
Best regards
C.G.

Hannes
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Post by Hannes » 10 May 2004 19:27

„Empire-Truppen nehmen in Gegend von Rosigno südlich Livorno 30 Waffen-SS-Männer der 16. SS-Pz. Gren. Division gefangen. Volksdeutsche werden getrennt und letztere mit Sprengmitteln in die Luft gesprengt. Vorfall bei Gerichtsakten der 16. SS-Pz. Gren. Division Juli 1944.”

That's all!

c.g.
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Post by c.g. » 10 May 2004 19:54

Could you please disclose the source of your citation?
Thanks
C.G.

Hannes
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Post by Hannes » 11 May 2004 18:38

Source: "Alliierte Kriegsverbrechen und Verbrechen gegen die Menschlichkeit" by Arndt-Verlag

Hannes

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Barrelhunter
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A US take on Rosignano and Leghorn.

Post by Barrelhunter » 22 Dec 2004 22:19

I've been studying this battle area as my Grandpa Doherty was killed "in the vacinity" of Leghorn on 4 July 1944. He was with Company G. 2/135th Regiment, 34th Infantry Division, Red Bulls. Or their German nickname Red Devils.

Here is part of the US side of this offensive.
http://www.iowanationalguard.com/pages/ ... y/WW2.html

Like the Axis the Red Bulls were lead by a strong Cadre of Prior Service Sargents. My grandfather had enlisted in 1928 and had been with them since Camp Clairborne, Louisiana for their Basic Training and the Louisiana Manuvers.

When reading about the high casualty rate of men on both sides this is one area where it was two well matched proffecional Armies locked in Legitamate Land Warefare.

Jim

GFvB
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Post by GFvB » 13 Jan 2005 15:36

Slightly off topic but inside the war-crime-in-Italy topic:

Do you have information about the crimes against civil population (murders and sexual assaults) don by english colonial troops at Montecassino?
Is it true that the english commander gave the "usual 3 days of looting" to his troops?
Did this have any consequences for any of the comanders/partecipants?

thanks

GFvB

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WalterS
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Post by WalterS » 13 Jan 2005 16:02

You are, perhaps, referring to French colonial troops under the command of General Juin. A discussion of this can be found at

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 692#416692

GFvB
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Post by GFvB » 13 Jan 2005 16:58

Thank You very much, that should be the right link! I am not familiar with the topic, but there is some talking about it in italian newspapers at the moment and I heard from people in that area that there where also british toops involved, sorry for that!

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