Ardennes Photos (Take Two)

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USAF1986
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Ardennes Photos (Take Two)

Post by USAF1986 » 23 May 2004 18:15

Hello! I thought I’d add these after the recent unpleasantness of the previous thread. Does anyone recognize the identity of these Luftwaffe/Waffen-SS troops? These photos, shown in order of shooting, were taken after Uscha. Gilbert, et al., had already left the area. This take features the well known young grenadier with the MG42, draped 7.92mm ammunition belts, fighting knife and Browning pistol.

In the first photo, a Luftwaffe Unteroffizier armed with a U.S. M1 carbine passes the knocked out M8 armored car (the Kriegsberichter positioned himself under the vehicle to capture the shot). Hmmm…a Fallschirmjäger?

In the second photo, two SS grenadiers, the one on the left armed with an MP40, “advance” down the road past the M8 armored car. According to the authors of the source cited below, the soldier on the right appears to have a facial scar under his left cheek (an old would?).

In the third photo, the same two soldiers halt the “action” for a smoke break. The soldier with the facial scar (right) has his face turned so the scar is not showing. The authors state the soldiers are from SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment 1.

Best regards,
Shawn

SOURCE:
• Goldstein, Donald M.; Dillon, Katherine V.; Wenger, J. Michael. Nuts! The Battle of the Bulge: The story and the photographs. Brassey’s, Inc., Dulles, Virginia, 1994.
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Timo
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Re: Ardennes Photos (Take Two)

Post by Timo » 23 May 2004 20:28

USAF1986 wrote:In the first photo, a Luftwaffe Unteroffizier armed with a U.S. M1 carbine passes the knocked out M8 armored car (the Kriegsberichter positioned himself under the vehicle to capture the shot). Hmmm…a Fallschirmjäger?

...The Leibstandarte received a considerable number of Luftwaffe- and Kriegsmarine Ersatz prior to the Ardennes Offensive. For the SS AA 1 (KG Knittel) this was upto 25 percent of total strength. For the majority of this men there was simply no Waffen-SS equipment and gear available which means they entered the Ardennes battlefield wearing Luftwaffe helmets, coats, etc. It seems very plausible that the "Fallschirmjäger" at Poteau were such Luftwaffe personell pressed into Waffen-SS service and are part of the KG Knittel and KG Hansen units pictured. I am not aware of any Fallschirmjäger unit that saw action in the Poteau area.

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USAF1986
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Post by USAF1986 » 24 May 2004 04:12

Thanks Timo! Excellent call on the Luftwaffe troops: not Fallschirmjäger but LSSAH replacements still wearing their old kit. The authors of Nuts! identify the man in the right background of the second photo as a Luftwaffe soldier as well (it appears that a Luftwaffe eagle is on the side of his helmet). He’s the soldier armed with a Kar 98K slung over his shoulder and carrying two ammunition boxes with an E-tool stuck under his belt. He shows up in the smoke break photos with the young MG42 gunner.

Following the smoke break seen above, the soldiers stage a few more mock attacks across and around the road for the benefit of the camera. About this time, two officers appear on the scene and stroll past the Kriegsberichter who snaps their picture. Just curious, does anybody recognize them?

Best regards,
Shawn
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Timo
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Post by Timo » 24 May 2004 06:39

There's some mystery about them. Veterans identified the officer with the stick as Hstuf. Emil Wawrzinek but then later said he's not.

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Post by Patrice » 27 May 2004 22:04

Hello.
In the Ardennes Album Mémorial book (Edition Heimdal Jean-Paul pallud )
The author say, that this officer could be the SS-Obersturmfürer Ulmer.

Patrice

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Post by Timo » 27 May 2004 22:14

Yes, he says it could be Ulmer. And again, why did he make that assumption? Because Ulmer was in command of the 2./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 1 LSSAH at that time. But I still don't know why Pallud captions these men as members of that Kompanie of KG Hansen. All I know is that I got a positive ID by former members of KG Knittel that we see several SS AA 1 members in those photos, including Knittel's adjutant Siegfried Stiewe which Pallud confirms. But what are his sources?

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Post by Patrice » 27 May 2004 22:39

For him,the Jagdpanzer Iv/70 seen on the other pictures of this report are from the SS-Pz.Jg.1 united with the Kampfgruppe Hansen.
He also write that the indetification of the Lutfwaffe is more difficult.
The nearby Fallschirm-Jäger-Division is the 3°,but she is more on the North-east,but it's possible that some little groups follow the Hansen
Kampfgruppe until Poteau.
Some of this group follow Peiper untill La Gleize and Stoumont.
Patrice

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Post by Timo » 27 May 2004 22:47

I know exactly what he writes, I know Hansen had Rettlinger and his Jagdpanzer, I don't say Pallud is wrong, I don't say he's right. What are his sources? As discussed in the previous thread, Pallud gives some ID's for LSSAH officers in other photos in his book that are definitely incorrect. This does not mean he's wrong with his Poteau captions but I don't take it for granted without knowing where he got his information.

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Post by Patrice » 27 May 2004 23:15

Himself say that is a probable identification ,He is not sure of this identity.

Patrice

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UnterKroon
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Post by UnterKroon » 03 Jun 2004 22:24

Nice photos anyway :)

Tolga Alkan
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Post by Tolga Alkan » 09 Jun 2004 15:00

I have to notice they are not photographs,they are just captures from videos.They can be found in popular videos taken from Ardennes.You could remember I have posted similar captures from my collection in the past,just search.

Best
Tolga

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Post by Lipton » 20 Jul 2004 18:45

Guys, I'm adding some scanns from Michael Tolhurst's Bastogne: Battle of the Bulge. Any more comments on them will be greatly appreciated (more photos coming soon!).
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Post by Kozak1944 » 22 Feb 2006 02:46

Hi, have you got more photos from Poteau? I'm searching also movie about them.

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Re: Ardennes Photos (Take Two)

Post by jjmcgr » 16 Jan 2009 19:54

The photos illustrated here are part of a batch that were taken by a combat photography unit which took both stills and movies. Aside from the posed pictures from Poteau and Kaiserbarracke, there are pictures taken from the battles near Honsfeld-Bullingen-Butgenbach where german paratroopers and Peiper suprised a rear unit of the 99th Infantry Division and captured a bunch of them.

The film rolls were captured several days later and one of the pictures of 99th POWS marching down a road while German tanks passed them was on the front page of a Philadelphia paper on Christmas. lt caused a minor scandal. The 99th, of course, fought well in the Bulge nevertheless, while it was the 106th Division where the Germans took the mosat POWs- two regiments' worth.

If you know the SC numbers for the pictures, you can purchase them from the National Archives (USA). I have about ten of them. I'll scan them in the future and post with their captions.

I think the Luftwaffe soldiers shown were paratroopers (without the paratrooper helmet) from one of the supporting Fallschirmjaeger divisions, and not replacements wearing old uniforms from another service. Pieper, for one, in the account he wrote for the US Army, mentions passing through such a unit and having some of their infantry ride on his tanks. Where this happened was in the same general area as the pictures were taken.

JJM

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IvanSR
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Re: Ardennes Photos (Take Two)

Post by IvanSR » 01 Feb 2009 17:14

The failure of 106th Division was caused mostly by the incompetence of its commanding officers.

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