Finnish related nations fighting in Finland

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Topspeed
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Finnish related nations fighting in Finland

Post by Topspeed » 21 Jun 2004 12:45

I may touch a very delicate subject, but figure this ought to be discussed.

Several Estonians and Carelia born people and Inkeri people ( what is Inkeri in english, please assist ! ) fought in the finnish troops. These are all very close to finns and in fact the very same race if you will more or less. Mannerheim did promise them freedom.

Unfortunately war was lost.

What really happened to those people that lost their country to be part of Soviet Union.

Recently I read all the soviets fighting in Finland were hauled back to Soviet Union and all the officers were shot immediately at the first trainstation after leaving Finland. I mean the soviet soldiers surrendered / captured by finns during the war who wanted to fight against the communist regime. All the rest were sent to Siberia for quite a long time.

Did this also apply to the tribes related to the finns ? Any info of this matter..did Estonian officers have a possibility to live normal life ?

Some of the Soviets and Estonians escaped to Sweden..how many managed to flee ?

Furhermore I know finnish government pays a pension to the soldiers who fought in Finland..has been paying for a some time. I know this is a symbolic gesture, since many of the fighters have already passed away.

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Harri
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Post by Harri » 21 Jun 2004 18:08

Two so called "tribal battalions" were formed in the summer 1941. They were Olonets [Aunus] Tribal [Warrior] Battalion (AHSP) and Viena Tribal [Warrior] Battalion (VHSP). At first battalions belonged to temporary Brigade Kuussaari and operated later independently mainly in anti-partisan duties. Despite of their name they had mostly Finnish personnel and most "non-Finns" were already Finnish citizens. Battalions ha later a kind "elite" status and received later more Finnish personnel. Battalions were re-names as Separate Battalion 25 and 26 in spring 1944. These men were not relieved to USSR after the war.

Since late 1942 trained volunteer Estonians were in III/JR 47 (18.D). Estonian Infantry Regiment 200 was formed late in 1943 and III/JR 47 became its I/JR 200. II/JR 200 was a new battalion trained in Finland. Lots of Estonians served also in Finnish Navy and in some also in Separate Battalion 4 (Er.P 4) / PM Tied.Os.

Tribal Battalion 3 (HeimoP 3) formed in 1943 was composed of volunteer Soviet POWs who mostly had Finno-Ugric background. Former Red Finns or known members of Komsomol or Communist Party were not accepted. Majority of men were Karelians, Ingrians, Veps and Finns (mostly those came from America). I don't know if there are good sources on this battalion. Does anyone know? (Juha H.? :lol: )

Ingrian Finns (former Ost-Bataillon 664 (finn.)) were since late 1943 in Separate Battalion B which was re-named as Separate Battalion 6 on 1.2.1944. This battalion consisted solely of Ingrians who were former Soviet citizens but not had not been POWs or been in Red Army.

All soldiers who had before the war been citizens of USSR were to be relieved to USSR according to Moscow peace (1944) terms (i.e. all men who were either in JR 200, HeimoP 3 or Separate Battalion 6) Actually several hundreds of men escaped (or were helped to escape) to Sweden and other countries. Most of the returned ones were sentenced ten to 25 years forced work (most were released after Stalin's death but they were usually without civil rights in USSR) but some were also executed at once when the trains had arrived in Viipuri. The last relieved soldiers were caught in Finland as late as in the 1950's.

Good sources on this issue are for example:

- The History of the Continuation War (Part 6 I think?)
- Kallioniemi, Timo: Prikaati K. - heimosoturit jatkosodassa [Brigade K - Tribal Soldiers in Continuation War], Gummerus 1992
- Mutanen, Pekka: Vaiennetut sotilaat [Silenced Soldiers], Ajatus, 1999
- Korjus, Jaakko: Viron Kunniaksi - Talvi- ja jatkosodan virolaiset vapaaehtoiset [For the Honour of Estonia - Estonian Volunteers in Winter and Continuation War], Karisto Oy, 1998
- Mutanen, Jorma: Jalkaväkirykmentti 200 - Virolaisten vapaaehtoisten historiikki Suomessa ja kotimaassa toisen maailmansodan aikana[Infantry Regiment 200 - History of the Volunteer Estonians in Finland and in Their Homeland During the World War II], Lions Club Luumäki, 1991

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Post by Topspeed » 21 Jun 2004 19:10

Gosh Harri, you are a walking talking history book :)

Thanks alot !

JT

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Re: Finnish related nations fighting in Finland

Post by Zygmunt » 21 Jun 2004 23:53

Topspeed wrote:...and Inkeri people ( what is Inkeri in english, please assist ! )
Well, following Harri talking about Ingrians I found
http://www.inkeri.com/english.html
Which indicates that the place can be called either "Ingria" or "Ingermanland" in English. There is also some info on that page about the area in WWII.

Zygmunt

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Post by Topspeed » 22 Jun 2004 09:28

I wonder if any group of people has ever gone through a more mirerable faith than the Ingrians.
Our little Ingrians who were subjected to Imperialistic Swedens puppets and later exile in Stalins tyranny.
I am happy that they have returned to Finland after their long Exodus.

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Post by varjag » 22 Jun 2004 12:37

Topspeed wrote:Gosh Harri, you are a walking talking history book :)

Thanks alot !

JT
I can only agree!!! One wonders how many of those ('most?) that got 'tenners' or 'twentyfivers' of Katorga (=Gulag Hard Labour) really DID survive to being released? 'Katorga' lifespans tended to be short.

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Post by Topspeed » 22 Jun 2004 12:51

30 000 came to Finland recently. Hardly any of them speaks good finnish.

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Post by Juha Hujanen » 22 Jun 2004 17:56

Well done Harri :D

As far as i know there's no book about HeimoP 3.There's Pro Gradu study "heimopataljoona 2" by Veli Ojala made in 1974.

1074 volunteers served in that battalion.380 came from Karelians from Olonets,94 from Viena Karelians,101 from Tver Karelians,24 from Vepsä,423 from Ingrian,30 from Finn of east-Karelia,1 Estonian and 17 whos nationality was unknown.
Fist CO was Ingrian Captain Emil Pekkanen.After him came Major Paavo Pyökkimies and from 27.11.43 until end of war CO was Lt.Col.Ludwig Mäntylä.
The battalion was in front line over 6 month in 43 and performed satisfactory.The SU started massive propaganda campaign for the battalion and few men deserted.In May 44 battalion was attached to 2nd Division and was posted to frontline in Karelian Isthmus.In June 44 it was discovered that 20 men of battalion attemped to desert and battalion was taken off from line.

In heavy fight in summer 44 battalion fought well in Vuosalmi and other places.It lost 30 KIA,18 MIA and 208 WIA in summer 44.Total lost for battalion were:76 KIA,20 MIA,388 WIA,8 deserters and 11 other casulties.

After the armastice battalion was forced to handed to SU.While volunteers were transfered to border 445 of 657 volunteers "dissapeared".Many of those fled to Sweden,some hide in Finland.In total 697 members of HeimoP 3 were handed to SU,some 300 fled to other countries.

Cheers/Juha

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Post by Harri » 22 Jun 2004 20:25

Thank you all and Juha H. 8)

Well, Separate Battalion 6's losses in 1944 were only 26 KIA and 13 MIA (I have not found figures of wounded ones) partly because battalion was initially subordinated to 15th and 18th Divisions and only a short while later to 2nd Division. Due to the experiences of HeimoP 3 also Er.P 6 became "unreliable" unit and it was moved to fortification duties already at the end of June 1944 before it had shown its real abilities. Er.P 6 was not full battalion because it had only two infantry companies, staff company, light mortar platoon and its MG company consisted only of two MG platoons. Additionally it had it's own jäger, engineer and signals platoons. Battalion CO was initially Lt.Col. Kaarlo Breitholtz and since 25.6.1944 Maj. Hans Katas.

Ingrian population was returned to USSR between December 1944 and September 1947. That population was amazingly big: about 54.700 men, women and kids!!. According to Pekka Mutanen only 277 soldiers of Er.P 6 returned while 415 men stayed in Finland or moved to West (mainly Sweden).

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Post by Topspeed » 03 Sep 2004 21:15

Recent document just showed that also 400 people from German POW camps is Leningrad region were salvaged to Finland.

regards,

Juke T

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Post by Juha Tompuri » 04 Sep 2004 10:17

Topspeed wrote:Recent document just showed that also 400 people from German POW camps is Leningrad region were salvaged to Finland.
More about that document at:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=58668

Regards, Juha

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Re:

Post by Huusko » 17 Mar 2009 10:30

Harri wrote: ...
Ingrian Finns (former Ost-Bataillon 664 (finn.)) were since late 1943 in Separate Battalion B which was re-named as Separate Battalion 6 on 1.2.1944. This battalion consisted solely of Ingrians who were former Soviet citizens but not had not been POWs or been in Red Army.
...
On the 27th March 1944 the Separate Battalion 6 was reinforced by 60 men who all had first been in German pows and then served in German army. 59 were Ingrians and 1 American. - I have the name list.

Some men from the Separate Battalion and HeimoP3 were drafted to the Headquatre's Intelligence Agency. They served as interpreters and interrogators, also as secret agents. In fall 1944 this group, ab. 30 men, were transported to Sweden under a secret operation by major Palko. So far I only know some code and nick names of those men.

- I'm now searching this group. Who they were, what was their role in HQ's IA, what happened to them after the war? Who were behind this secret operation? - I appreciate all clues.

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Re: Finnish related nations fighting in Finland

Post by Harri » 18 Mar 2009 17:12

Was that major Palko's firstname Yrjö? If so his original surname was Poljakoff or better known Poläkoff, probably born on 28.12.1902 at Viipuri. During the war he was the Leader of "Päämajan asiamiestiedustelu" [Supreme HQ Agent Intelligence]. Palko's role should be quite clear if we know what he did during the war.

Here is some more on maj. Palko:

http://www.ilmavoimat.fi/index.php?id=68
Nykyisen Viestikoelaitoksen toimialan käynnistämistä johtivat 1950-luvulla alkuvaiheessa majuri Yrjö Palko ja myöhemmin everstiluutnantti Armo Karkaus. Johdon toimisto sijaitsi tuolloin Helsingin keskustassa Punanotkonkadulla.
The starting of the today's Signals Test Establishment were led by Major Yrjö Palko at the early phases of 1950's and later Lt.Col. Armo Karkaus. The office of the staff was located then at the central Helsinki on Punanotko Street.
http://www.pkymasehist.fi/radtied.html
Suomalaiset upseerit kilpailivat siitä, kuka pystyy vetämään venäläisiä eniten nenästä. Asiamiestiedustelun johtajalta, majuri Yrjö Palkolta tiedusteltiin agenttien nimiä. Palko, entinen vakoojakoulun venäjänkielen opettaja, teeskenteli, ettei osannut venäjää.
Finnish officers competed on who can cheat Russians most. From the Leader of the Agent Intelligence Maj. Yrjö Palko was asked the names of the agents. Palko, a former Russian language teacher of Agent School, pretended that he could not speak Russian.
This is an interesting one:

https://jyx.jyu.fi/dspace/bitstream/han ... sequence=1

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Re: Finnish related nations fighting in Finland

Post by Lotvonen » 20 Mar 2009 10:41

The ref is to a piece of research in the U. of Jyväskylä. Title "Under the oversight of the stronger one - the activities of the Security Police VALPO to repatriate Soviet citizens in 1944-1948"
Abstract on p.2 translated from Finnish:

"The aim of this research is to examine the activities of the Valpo when they traced and arrested tribal soldiers recruited from POWs hiding in Finland, and to find the methods that the Valpo employed when investigating the network helping the tribal soldiers. Tracing tribal soldiers was a task ordered to the Valpo in the end of 1944, as the Allied Control Commission demanded that the ex-POW tribal soldiers be repatriated. Valpo personnel was not enthusiastic to carry out this order but the zeal increased in spring 1945 as the organization was gradually taken over by Communists .

It is just this fact that makes the research interesting. The Communist Valpo received from the Control Commission in several occasions instructions and lists of names of people that the Soviet Union demanded to be handed over. The lists were given without the co-operation of the Ministry of Interior that normally gave orders to the Valpo. It is true that usually representatives of the ministries of Interior and Foreign negotiated in hotel Torni with the representatives of the Control commission about repatriation of Soviet citizens.

Valpo did start wide-reaching searches with fair results. Several hiding POW tribal soliders were arrested, but not all of them by far. In reaction to the searches by Valpo a countrywide network sprung up, with the idea to help the hiding tribal soldiers to escape to safety in Sweden. The network included people of all social classes. Only the left-wingers did not join in, at times often denouncing the network activists. To overcome the problems in searching the Valpo set up a task force called Haku. This clearly enhanced the searching work.

The fishermen and black market traders smuggling refugees across the Gulf of Bothnia were motivated by money, just as the assistants in the valley of river Tornionjoki. The refugees were willing to pay several thousands of FIM to escape. But the network assistants in the inland took the risk just for love for their "tribesmen", just as the several civil servants participating in the network.

End of quote.

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Re: Finnish related nations fighting in Finland

Post by Huusko » 21 Mar 2009 02:39

Lotvonen wrote:The ref is to a piece of research in the U. of Jyväskylä. Title "Under the oversight of the stronger one - the activities of the Security Police VALPO to repatriate Soviet citizens in 1944-1948"
The group I'm interested is mentioned in this reseach on page 35:
"Col. Hallamaa, Lt.Col. Käkönen and Major Palko arranged a hidden place on the countryside around Köyliö area for those tribal sodiers who had served in HQ's IA. Some of them got new id's and they were registered as escapee from the pows. From Köyliö Lt. Hirvenkari transported the prisoners to Tornio and then to Sweden."

Major Palko put the secret operation into practice. He got all orders from Hallamaa. This operation was separate from the operation Stella Polaris but seems to be similar. The group didn't consist only of tribal soldiers. Lt. Hirvenkari was resposible only for the final part from Liminka to Tornio.
- The case was at the Military High Court on the 6 June 1947 and later at the Supreme Court. Major Palko was convicted of misconduct agains the terms of peace, and he was arrested for some months. There are lot of documents what happened and how, but there are no detailed description about those men (ab.30) and their mission at HQ's IA.
- I'm also interested to know what happened them after the war. I know, many of them were drafted to the military IA's in Sweden, France and USA.

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