a letter from Auschwitz

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23712
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Post by David Thompson » 27 Jun 2004 18:21

LFS -- You complained:
when i posted 7 (SEVEN) german contemporaneous documents from Auschwitz, with the word vergasung (raum,keller):"fumigation or gassing delousing operation, disinfestation chamber"....You reply with a page of one vocabulary german-english of 1939 to show that the word vergasung signify "homicidal gassing" (sic), whereas the various meaning of the word vergasungskeller in the vocabulary don't contains any reference to the act of killing nobody!
The 1939 dictionary definition of "vergas/en/ung" referred to an "attack with gas-bombs." Since an "attack" is meant to inflict harm or damage, it is a reasonable inference to assume that the "gas-bombs" refer to a poison gas. Between 1914 and 1918 there was a war, in Europe and elsewhere, in which many persons lost their lives and in which persons were attacked with poison gas, including poison gas-bombs, projectiles and other dispersion devices. This event, of which most German-speaking (and English, and French, and Italian, and Russian, and Polish, etc.) persons were aware by 1939, provides an easily understandable "reference to the act of killing."

You also said:
But the existence of a sports area and a hospital designated for the use of inmates is not consistent with the thesis that the camp was an "extermination" camp.
That's your conclusion, but what's your argument?

To support this statement, you said:
In particular, how do we explain that the SS permitted crowds of inmates to have a direct view of a crematory where supposedly ultra-secret events transpired and near which, we are told, thousands of victims were crowded every day?
(1) Give our readers an example of an occasion on which this happened.
(2) Give our readers an example of a witness who testified that he learned about the gas chambers while he was watching, or playing in, a soccer game.
(3) Didn't the homicidal gassings take place inside the buildings, rather than in the open air? Under these circumstances, how obvious would the killings have been to someone on the outside?
(4) Who told you "near which, we are told, thousands of victims were crowded every day" (my emphasis)?

Then you said:
The Auschwitz Museum (ex?)communist authority was so preoccupied for this logic incompatibility between extermination and recreation activity for inmates that after the exact representation of Sector B II f showed in Hefte von Auschwitz, No. 15, Verlag Staatliches Auschwitz-Museum, 1975 (outside the text, between pages 56 and 57: where the sports area is called Sportplatz and the hospital area is called Krankenbaulager für Männer) have censored and replaced with plans of the camp without any other mention to hospital or places for sport!
(1) Please show proof that "the exact representation of Sector B II f showed in Hefte von Auschwitz, No. 15, Verlag Staatliches Auschwitz-Museum, 1975 (outside the text, between pages 56 and 57: where the sports area is called Sportplatz and the hospital area is called Krankenbaulager für Männer)" was intentionally censored.

(2) After you have done this, please show that the "censorship" resulted from "this logic incompatibility between extermination and recreation activity for inmates."

You also said:
The Auschwitz Museum (ex?)communist authority . . . .

What does this reference to "(ex?)communist authority" have to do with anything?

User avatar
Helly Angel
Member
Posts: 5081
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 20:00
Location: Florida, USA

Post by Helly Angel » 27 Jun 2004 21:38

The Nazis were right about the italians!

And my answer in http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=52408 is a reply to an injustificate attack in other lenguage in the same thread.

Would you like that you open a thread about any theme and someone wrote stupid think like this?

User avatar
DrG
Member
Posts: 1408
Joined: 21 Oct 2003 22:23
Location: Italia

Post by DrG » 27 Jun 2004 22:59

Helly Angel wrote:The Nazis were right about the italians!
And the meaning of this sentence is...?
Ah, by the way, I am AN Italian. If you want to insult me:
- do it openly
- talk to me, not to my nation.
You pretend to be an anti-Nazi, but when it's time to attack a whole nation or to agree with them you don't have problems.
And my answer in http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=52408 is a reply to an injustificate attack in other lenguage in the same thread.
Would you like that you open a thread about any theme and someone wrote stupid think like this?
I wanted to show you your lack of taste: you ask the action of moderators against another member, when you have already broken the rules of this forum without sanction.
"Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye." (Luke, 6:42)

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23712
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Post by David Thompson » 27 Jun 2004 23:00

National insults are not permitted here. Avoid them.

As for posts in foreign languages, or any other violation of the rules of this section of the forum, I try to read everything that is posted here. However, if a reader thinks I have missed something, please bring the matter to my attention by PM.

User avatar
Lucius Felix Silla
Member
Posts: 176
Joined: 01 Aug 2003 17:46
Location: North Italy

Post by Lucius Felix Silla » 28 Jun 2004 18:17

David Thompson wrote:LFS -- You complained:
when i posted 7 (SEVEN) german contemporaneous documents from Auschwitz, with the word vergasung (raum,keller):"fumigation or gassing delousing operation, disinfestation chamber"....You reply with a page of one vocabulary german-english of 1939 to show that the word vergasung signify "homicidal gassing" (sic), whereas the various meaning of the word vergasungskeller in the vocabulary don't contains any reference to the act of killing nobody!
The 1939 dictionary definition of "vergas/en/ung" referred to an "attack with gas-bombs." Since an "attack" is meant to inflict harm or damage, it is a reasonable inference to assume that the "gas-bombs" refer to a poison gas. Between 1914 and 1918 there was a war, in Europe and elsewhere, in which many persons lost their lives and in which persons were attacked with poison gas, including poison gas-bombs, projectiles and other dispersion devices. This event, of which most German-speaking (and English, and French, and Italian, and Russian, and Polish, etc.) persons were aware by 1939, provides an easily understandable "reference to the act of killing."

You also said:
But the existence of a sports area and a hospital designated for the use of inmates is not consistent with the thesis that the camp was an "extermination" camp.
That's your conclusion, but what's your argument?

To support this statement, you said:
In particular, how do we explain that the SS permitted crowds of inmates to have a direct view of a crematory where supposedly ultra-secret events transpired and near which, we are told, thousands of victims were crowded every day?
(1) Give our readers an example of an occasion on which this happened.
(2) Give our readers an example of a witness who testified that he learned about the gas chambers while he was watching, or playing in, a soccer game.
(3) Didn't the homicidal gassings take place inside the buildings, rather than in the open air? Under these circumstances, how obvious would the killings have been to someone on the outside?
(4) Who told you "near which, we are told, thousands of victims were crowded every day" (my emphasis)?

Then you said:
The Auschwitz Museum (ex?)communist authority was so preoccupied for this logic incompatibility between extermination and recreation activity for inmates that after the exact representation of Sector B II f showed in Hefte von Auschwitz, No. 15, Verlag Staatliches Auschwitz-Museum, 1975 (outside the text, between pages 56 and 57: where the sports area is called Sportplatz and the hospital area is called Krankenbaulager für Männer) have censored and replaced with plans of the camp without any other mention to hospital or places for sport!
(1) Please show proof that "the exact representation of Sector B II f showed in Hefte von Auschwitz, No. 15, Verlag Staatliches Auschwitz-Museum, 1975 (outside the text, between pages 56 and 57: where the sports area is called Sportplatz and the hospital area is called Krankenbaulager für Männer)" was intentionally censored.

(2) After you have done this, please show that the "censorship" resulted from "this logic incompatibility between extermination and recreation activity for inmates."

You also said:
The Auschwitz Museum (ex?)communist authority . . . .

What does this reference to "(ex?)communist authority" have to do with anything?
Dear Mr. David Thompson,

Numerous groups of people, according to Thadeusz Grabowski (ex-inmate quoted in H. Langbein "Uomini ad Auschwitz", Milano 1979 p.119 it. ed of "Menschen in Auschwitz") partecipated as spectators to football games in teh Sportplatz near Krema III.

According to gassing procedures as testify by witnesses (see Nyiszli, Muller etc.) large groups of people (3,000-2,500-2,000) enters in Krematoria III area, which was visible from Sportplatz, and after in undressing room. After some minutes at least 8-10 SS go on the roof of LK1, openly visible from SP, in order to introduce through four like-chimneys the Zyklon-B. Nobody was alive after some minutes.

So the entire procedure was visible from the SP. Now, also if i can concedes to You that the entire operation can be concealed simply by one order of SS to stop the play or something of similar, there's a logical incompatibility between the free access to SP and the presence of one allegedly ultrasecret site to killing human people openly visible to all.
If, as much witnesses attests, the Krematorium III was without pause in operation and thus smokes and flames erupted continously from the chimney, with a terrible smell, how is conceivable that people play games of football amidst this infernal scenario?

For this i think that the Auschwitz State Museum Authority have chosen to conceal the real disposition of places. I don't have proofs, if not this simple fact: that in the plans prepared for books of large diffusion the
acronym SP was deleted or concealed.

As for word "ex-communist" this is very important remark. The fact that investigations, trials and researchs were conducted by Polonostalinians commissions of enquiry (euphemism) have surely his significance.

Is only a fortuitous case that in western KL's, where some eyewitnesses have testified the existence of homicidal gas chambers (Buchenwald, Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, Flossenburg et cetera) in postwar trials or in various statements, we known that these mythical gas chambers weren't true?


Best Regards

LFS

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”