Japanese

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
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David E M
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Japanese

Post by David E M » 03 Aug 2002 14:14

Just watched the most sickening program I have ever seen, I thought I knew the Japanese, I know the language, have worked in Japan.
This program went for 3 hours on Australian TV tonight, about the Japanese Army.
There was a Doctor talking about vivisections on humans, another army seargent about the 20 year old Chinese girl he raped, killed and then fed to his troops!
The murders, rapes etc defies belief, a corporal talks about throwing babies into a fire.
They interviewed 14 ex soldiers and only two of them showed any remorse!.
I taped it to show my brother in law, he fought behind the Japanese lines in Burma, I decided not to because he would last 5 minuites before someone got killed.
We talk all the time about the German atrocities, the Jews, the Poles, the Russians, Deport an ex SS oficer from Argentina for what he did in Latvia, ok fine, what happens to these Japanese bastards who experimented on live human beings? and then go on TV and talk about it?.
NADA.
Sorry just got mad and had to get it out.
cheers.
ps the only saving grace about this is it was made by a Japanese company, I will try to find out if it was shown in Japan.

Dan
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Post by Dan » 03 Aug 2002 15:04

Interesting about the canabalism. In the 80's I spent 6 months in Papua New Guinea as a volunteer, and on one outing to a remote area the head honcho (complete with a bone through his nose, I kid you not) told me about where a big bird which was shot down by 3 little birds fell down. To make a long story short, I did see the wreckage of a B-17.

The stories of Japanese canabalism are ubiquitous there, and have to do more with starving troops than taste, so while I don't doubt the story of the Chinese girl, I wonder about the context.

Regards

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David E M
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Post by David E M » 03 Aug 2002 15:23

Yes you are right.
It did have more to do about starving, I read a Japanese book once called something like 'The Long Road' it told of three Japanese guys only one of which was fit, they were in the Philippines, this guy went looking for wounded soldiers (Japanese) killed them , and told his mates they were eating monkey meat.
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GFM2000
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Re: Japanese

Post by GFM2000 » 04 Aug 2002 05:20

David E M wrote:Just watched the most sickening program I have ever seen, I thought I knew the Japanese, I know the language, have worked in Japan.
This program went for 3 hours on Australian TV tonight, about the Japanese Army.
There was a Doctor talking about vivisections on humans, another army seargent about the 20 year old Chinese girl he raped, killed and then fed to his troops!
The murders, rapes etc defies belief, a corporal talks about throwing babies into a fire.
They interviewed 14 ex soldiers and only two of them showed any remorse!.
I taped it to show my brother in law, he fought behind the Japanese lines in Burma, I decided not to because he would last 5 minuites before someone got killed.
We talk all the time about the German atrocities, the Jews, the Poles, the Russians, Deport an ex SS oficer from Argentina for what he did in Latvia, ok fine, what happens to these Japanese bastards who experimented on live human beings? and then go on TV and talk about it?.
NADA.
Sorry just got mad and had to get it out.
cheers.
ps the only saving grace about this is it was made by a Japanese company, I will try to find out if it was shown in Japan.


Hi David,

I watched the first hour of that program on SBS (I believe it was subtitled "Sons of the Devils"), and got sick of it. I recalled reading about Japanese atrocities in my youth, and still cannot get over it.

What revolted me even more was the candid way the Japanese soldiers talked about the way they tortured the Chinese captives. There does not appear to be any remorse or guilt in these people. It was sad to see that film.

We also talked about the way former SS soldiers were still being extradited today, and these former Japanese soldiers are, apparently, able to run freely.

There is no scope for "Holocaust Denial" here. In this program, these former soldiers OPENLY ADMIT they have killed, mudered, raped, tortured, and experimented with biological warfare weapons on civilians .

I do hope that film will be shown in Japan (from the setup, it appears to be made for a Japanese audience). Judging by the recent behaviour of the Japanese Emperor, it seems as if the Japanese have yet to admit some of the terrible war crimes committed in World War II, especially in China.

For the many Asians and Australians who lost their lives to the atrocities committed in the War. May we can someday forgive, but lest we forget. :cry:
Last edited by GFM2000 on 04 Aug 2002 09:16, edited 4 times in total.

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Paul Timms
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War crimes

Post by Paul Timms » 04 Aug 2002 07:25

I can't remember the figures but a far smaller proportion of Japanese were tried for warcrimes than Germans. Based on the fact that a higher proportion of crimes were against Westerners i cannot understand this. As stated there is no attempt at denial i have seen many soldiers discussing using prisoners for bayonet practice etc. I do know that some of the people responsible for germ warfare experiments on prisoners were given immunity in exchange for helping the US after the war.

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Dan W.
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Post by Dan W. » 04 Aug 2002 08:14

The issue (or argument) should not be the atrocities committed. These are a fact. What is not so clear is how Japan is dealing with this. This country is strongly pacifist today. A recent poll stated that 50% in Japan would rather be conquered by an invading army than to fight back militarily. When will Japan atone for it's sins? When will it admit it's role in these bestial activities? It hasn't, and it has whitewashed history. Many of today's Japanese children don't know what happened.

Tonight in the states (Sunday, Aug. 4th, 7:00PM CST on Fox News) there will be a one hour episod entitled "Bataan, survivor stories" that I am looking forward to. My 83 year old neighbor down the street survived that march. He won't talk about it to me. And he has gotten flashbacks his whole life. In the middle of doing something and it hits him like a ton of bricks from out of the blue. But we have shared books on the ordeal and slowly it comes out from him sometimes. Sometimes not.

Japan has a ot of guilt it has managed to hide, alot of history whitewashed. Germany has paid it's bill for its role in WWII but
Japan has not paid a penny. It may be waiting for that generation to simply die before admitting its role.

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Marcus
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Post by Marcus » 04 Aug 2002 09:46

I find it interesting that none of the "sceptics" (or what ever the term is) have attacked these claims they way they would if it had been Germans instead of Japanese that were accused.

/Marcus

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Post by Fredrik » 04 Aug 2002 11:20

How was the Japanese treated after they had surrendered and gave up their entire emipre? There must have been at least some colonists in Korea and Taiwan. Where they sent home, whiped out, or simply left alone?

Regards,
Fredrik

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Post by Caldric » 04 Aug 2002 11:52

I find it interesting that none of the "sceptics" (or what ever the term is) have attacked these claims they way they would if it had been Germans instead of Japanese that were accused.


I think it is like "selective memory", or better put "selective skeptic".

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David E M
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Post by David E M » 04 Aug 2002 13:13

I have to admit I have spoken to some very brave Japanese who were captured by the Russians in Manchuria.
I have nothing but respect for these soldiers. They will also admit they didn't really care about anyone 'outside the group'.
Which is great you might think, anyone who has been in the military knows this.
We all hang together.
I will not get into race etc. however in Asia race does matter its not like Europe. ( not PC ).
Just a story to clear the air, I was on Corrigador last year and learned that one of the greatest battles was fought by the 'Mile long barracks'.
The American paratroops dropped just outside the barracks, and found themselves faced by Japanese marines most of which were 7 (count 'em seven) foot tall!!.
Seeing the distance between where they landed and the barracks, not a fight I would have wanted to be in.
But then, I'm a sailor not a marine.
cheers.

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Post by James » 04 Aug 2002 13:20

Interesting and I think accurate, observation, Marcus. It seems that although the certain Japanese are readily believed capable of tossing live babies in a fire, Germans for some reason were not...

Incidentally, I do believe the stories in the program about Japanese atrocities to be virtually all true. My father in law was a doctor serving in the Phillipines in 1941 and was captured in Bataan when it fell. Although avoiding the worst part of the Death March (he was a physician and his field hospital had treated well a number of wounded Japanese soldiers, even thought supplies were very short; when the hospital was overrun, the wounded Japanese soldiers intervened and told of their good treatment; as a result, a number of the doctors and staff were put on a truck and carried most of the way out), he of course spent the rest of the war in camps in the Phillipines and Japan. From what he has told me about his experiences, I have no trouble believing that there was virtually no compassion or mercy given to the conquered people, particularly other Asians. However, as you might imagine, most of his stories revolved around...food.

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Post by Dan » 04 Aug 2002 13:34

Marcus Wendel wrote:I find it interesting that none of the "sceptics" (or what ever the term is) have attacked these claims they way they would if it had been Germans instead of Japanese that were accused.

/Marcus


The possible reasons are several, not least the fact that there are/were millions of veterans from the European Axis nations who, because of language and distance and technology and culture and script, could communicate with the rest of the European world after the war. Documents written in German are much more numerous and easily translatable that those written in Japanses.

How many of those present have family members from Japan or China? How many have first or second hand stories?

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Post by David E M » 04 Aug 2002 13:34

Marcus, dangerous topic, I know you dont allow racism on your board, with good reason, However as a white guy ( with an Asian wife ) I can tell you a lot about racism in Asia.
However I think the big reason the Japanese were not prosecuted was because most of the results of the experiments were given 'in tact' to the Americans.
and anyway who cares what happens in Asia?.
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Post by Dan » 04 Aug 2002 13:41

Yes, it would have been different if the victims were of the same ethnic group that constitutes 94% of the Hollywood writers guild. The crimes were both horrific, but German crimes are kept in the public view, while Japanese crimes simply aren't.

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David E M
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Post by David E M » 04 Aug 2002 13:45

Interesting James, have you seen the monument in Singapore?. The two chopsticks?.
You are right its all about food.
cheers.

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