Auschwitz testimony of Dr. Victor Abend

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Auschwitz testimony of Dr. Victor Abend

Post by David Thompson » 12 Jul 2004 00:20

In 1947 Dr. Victor Abend testified about his Auschwitz experiences in the trial of United States v. Oswald Pohl, et al. (the WVHA case). Extracts of his testimony were published in the report of the case, Nuernberg Military Tribunal proccedings vol. 5, pp. 641-646:

EXTRACTS FROM TESTIMONY OF PROSECUTION WITNESS DR. VICTOR ABEND*

DIRECT EXAMINATION

MR. McHANEY: Your name is Victor Abend?

WITNESS ABEND: Yes.

Q. And when and where were you born?

A. I was born on 1 April 1901 at Jaroslaw.

Q. Are you a citizen of Poland?

A. Yes.

Q. What is your profession?

A. I am a physician.

Q. What is your present address?

A. Aeussere Prinzregentenstrasse 9.

Q. Where did you study medicine?

A. First, I attended the medical school at Vienna, and later or at Krakow where I also passed my medical service examination

Q. When did you begin your practice of medicine?

A. In the year of 1931.

Q. Where was this?

A. In Krakow.

Q. How long did you continue your practice in Krakow?

A. Until the outbreak of the war in 1939.

Q. And what happened then?

A. After a regular appeal that the Polish citizens were to go towards the East, I went to the East.

Q. Did there come a time when you were sent to a concentration camp?

A. Yes.

Q. When were you arrested?

A. In the year of 1943.

Q. Where?

A. At Tarnow.

Q. And what happened after you were arrested?
__________
* Complete testimony is recorded in mimeographed transcript, 11 April 1947, pp. 252-273.

641

A. I was sent to a concentration camp in Schoebnik.

Q. How long did you stay there?

A. For 45 weeks.

Q. Then what happened to you?

A. Then I was transferred to Auschwitz.

Q. With how large a transport did you go to Auschwitz?

A. There were quite a few people.

Q. Well, was there a trainload?

A. Yes.

Q. Were you transported in freight cars?

A. Yes.

Q. How many prisoners were put into each car?

A. Quite a number.

Q. Well, were there as many as 75?

A. It depends on the size of the freight car.

Q. Was it very crowded?

A. It was very full. They were fully occupied.

Q. How long were you on the road?

A. Approximately 4 days and nights.

Q. Did you have anything to eat or drink during this journey?

A. No.

Q. Did the prisoners suffer much during this transporting?

A. Very much.

Q. And what happened after your arrival at Auschwitz?

A. In Auschwitz each car was unloaded separately.

Q. Then what did they do. Go ahead and describe what happened to you after you arrived in Auschwitz, what happened to you and the rest of the transport?

A. When our freight car was opened up at Auschwitz, several people within the car almost fell out unconscious, and part of them were driven out with whips and beatings. We then had to place ourselves before the camp physician. This camp physician asked us for our age and our profession. He then pointed with a finger, so and so (indicating). I went this way, to the left. After our car had been unloaded, other cars were also unloaded, and they were given the same procedure.

When all the freight cars had been unloaded, we were sent with SS guards who were heavily armed, and we were surrounded by them. We were without shoes, without pants, without gloves. Then we were sent into the camp under severe beatings. We were also hit with rifles and bayonets.

In the camp itself, we were sent into a stable where we spent all night, and where we had to stand up all night long.

The following day we went to be tattooed, again under severe beatings.

642

Q. Were you tattooed?

A. Yes. I have the number 160879.

Q. Do you know whether they tattooed inmates in other concentration camps or not?

A. Only at Auschwitz.

Q. In other words, any inmate who has a tattoo on his arm was an inmate at Auschwitz; is that right?

A. Yes. That is correct.

* * * * * * * * * *

Q. Witness, what happened to the group that was sent to the right, after the transport arrived?

A. After a certain number had accumulated, these people were loaded on trucks without any guards, and accompanied only by a single SS man who was seated in the front of the truck they were led out.

Q. And do you know what happened to them?

A. Yes.

Q. What?

A. In the camp we were told that all the persons who had stood on the right side, and all the persons who had been loaded on trucks were sent directly to the crematorium.

Q. Do you mean they were gassed?

A. First they were gassed, and then they were sent into the crematorium.

* * * * * * * * * *

Q. Do you remember in the year 1944 whether or not there was a large number of transports of Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz ?

A. Yes. That was in April, the end of April and perhaps in early May 1944. That is when large transports of Hungarian Jews arrived.

Q. And what happened to those Hungarian Jews?

A. They also were selected in the selection procedure, and a certain number of people were again gassed and cremated.

Q. Were there so many people being gassed at this time that the normal facilities were not adequate?

A. Do you mean the facilities of the crematorium?

Q. Both the crematorium and the gas chamber.

A. Yes.

Q. Well, will you tell us how they gassed those who were unable to go into the normal gas chambers? How did they take care of that?

A. They were cremated at Pscezinki.

Q. Did they have a large barn there into which they crowded the people and then dropped the gas in through the chimney?

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A. No. It was a small barn, and it was usually known under the name of the "white house."

Q. And will you describe that to us, what happened there?

A. The people were crowded into this barn, and after the whole barn was already filled up with people the door was closed, and the gas was thrown in through certain flaps.

Q. And were the people always killed by the gas?

A. Yes, in part, but part of them remained alive.

Q. What did they do with those?

A. Those who were still alive were thrown into the fire.

Q. And was this a way of cremating the bodies; that they dug big ditches close to this "white house" in which they built a fire and cremated the bodies?

A. Holes were made there, and wood was placed into these holes. Gas was poured on the wood and then the whole thing was inflamed.

Q. Now, Witness, do you know whether or not they took the clothes and valuables, trunks, similar items, from the inmates at Auschwitz when they arrived?

A. Yes. All valuables were taken away from us and all our clothing. Our laundry was taken away from us also.

Q. Were there large quantities of clothing and shoes, valuables at Auschwitz which were taken away?

A. There was a very large number.

Q. Do you know what happened to that clothing and those valuables?

A. They were loaded and sent away.

Q. Loaded into what, freight cars?

A. Into freight cars.

Q. And was there a name around the camp by which these valuables were known, did the inmates have some expression they used with respect to the shipment of those clothing items?

A. Yes.

Q. What was that?

A. Well, it was usually said, "Here are the presents from Poland, for Pohl."

Q. Will you please repeat the answer?

A. It was usually said that these were presents for Pohl.

Q. And was that a common way of expressing these shipments of clothing and other valuables?

A. Yes. That is what was said.

Q. Do you know who Pohl was?

A. No. I did not know it at that time.

* * * * * * * * * *

644

EXAMINATION

PRESIDING JUDGE TOMS: When you were arrested, Doctor, were you told the reason why you were being arrested?

WITNESS ABEND: No.

Q. Did you ever have a trial or a hearing before you were sent to the camp?

A. Never.

Q. In the cars — the freight cars in which you traveled — could the men lie down?

A. It was almost impossible.

Q. Why?

A. Because so many people were crowded in these freight cars.

Q. Was there any water to drink?

A. No.

Q. Were there any toilets?

A. No.

* * * * * * * * * *
CROSS-EXAMINATION

DR. SEIDL (counsel for defendant Pohl) : Witness, you have testified that you were born in Jaroslaw.

WITNESS ABEND: Yes.

Q. When the war broke out in 1939 you were told to go to the East?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the reason?

A. We were to report there to the military command.

Q. And you did so?

A. Yes.

Q. And then you were arrested in 1943?

A. Yes.

Q. And apparently, for the reason, as I thought from your answers, that you were of Jewish descent.

A. Yes.

Q. Now you are living in Munich?

A. Yes.

Q. According to your testimony I have to assume that you were mistreated by the Germans during the war, and I now ask you: What are the reasons that prevent you now from going back to your Polish fatherland? After all, you are a Polish citizen, aren't you?

A. Because I do not want to.

Q. Well, I am asking you, why don't you want to go back?

A. Because I have lost everything I had in Poland. I lost my

645

wife in Auschwitz, my child in Auschwitz; I have lost my apartment and furniture and all the property which I owned.

DR. SEIDL: No further questions, your Honors.

* * * * * * * * * *
RE-EXAMINATION

PRESIDING JUDGE Toms: When you were arrested, what happened to your wife and children?

WITNESS ABEND: On the second of October 1943, my wife and my child were sent away with a transport. Then, when I was at Auschwitz, I tried to obtain some information as to just what had happened to these transports — which at that time left from Tarnow, Czernow, [Chrzanow], Bocna, [Bochnia], Prozeml, [Przemysl], and Krakow. Then I was told they were all sent to the gas chambers and cremated.

Q. Did you have two children?

A. Yes. One child is with me.

Q. Did you ever see your wife and your other child after you were separated from them?

A. I never saw them again. The last time I saw them was at the parade ground at Tarnow.

Q. You have no idea of what became of them?

A. No, I only know that this transport, on the second or third of October 1943, left for Auschwitz; that all these people were immediately sent to the gas chambers without any previous selection.

Q. How were you able to save one child, the one who is with you now?

A. In the year 1942 when we were not as yet confined to the ghetto but when we were living in the Jewish part of town, then my maid took the child with her to a Polish village; and she kept it there. When I returned she had the child sent to me. It came to me in April 1946, to Munich.

Q. Then your child was saved by your maid, your servant?

A. Yes.

Q. It was protected until you were released?

A. Through the maid, through the servant, yes.

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Post by alf » 12 Jul 2004 04:28

Thankyou David, as always a fascinating post that adds to the immense body of testimonies from the myraids of victims and the accused.

I was wondering if the numerous testimonies you have posted could be placed in their own "sticky", the sheer volume of them and general consistency (from Nazi's and victims) makes a serious research subject in their own right.

kind regards

alf

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Post by Lucius Felix Silla » 13 Jul 2004 08:30

* * * * * * * * * *

Q. Witness, what happened to the group that was sent to the right, after the transport arrived?

A. After a certain number had accumulated, these people were loaded on trucks without any guards, and accompanied only by a single SS man who was seated in the front of the truck they were led out.

Q. And do you know what happened to them?

A. Yes.

Q. What?

A. In the camp we were told that all the persons who had stood on the right side, and all the persons who had been loaded on trucks were sent directly to the crematorium.

Q. Do you mean they were gassed?

A. First they were gassed, and then they were sent into the crematorium.

* * * * * * * * * *

Q. Do you remember in the year 1944 whether or not there was a large number of transports of Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz ?

A. Yes. That was in April, the end of April and perhaps in early May 1944. That is when large transports of Hungarian Jews arrived.

Q. And what happened to those Hungarian Jews?

A. They also were selected in the selection procedure, and a certain number of people were again gassed and cremated.

Q. Were there so many people being gassed at this time that the normal facilities were not adequate?

A. Do you mean the facilities of the crematorium?

Q. Both the crematorium and the gas chamber.

A. Yes.

Q. Well, will you tell us how they gassed those who were unable to go into the normal gas chambers? How did they take care of that?

A. They were cremated at Pscezinki.

Q. Did they have a large barn there into which they crowded the people and then dropped the gas in through the chimney?

643

A. No. It was a small barn, and it was usually known under the name of the "white house."

Q. And will you describe that to us, what happened there?

A. The people were crowded into this barn, and after the whole barn was already filled up with people the door was closed, and the gas was thrown in through certain flaps.

Q. And were the people always killed by the gas?

A. Yes, in part, but part of them remained alive.

Q. What did they do with those?

A. Those who were still alive were thrown into the fire.

Q. And was this a way of cremating the bodies; that they dug big ditches close to this "white house" in which they built a fire and cremated the bodies?

A. Holes were made there, and wood was placed into these holes. Gas was poured on the wood and then the whole thing was inflamed.




Well, can anyone explicate to me where was this phantomatic gas chamber/cremation facility of Pscezinki. ?
According to this eyewitness there were gassed and cremated much people, but i have checked all publications of Auschwitz Museum and i don't have found any notice about Pscezinki.

Best Regards

LFS

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Post by alf » 13 Jul 2004 12:51

The answer was given , how did you miss it? it was the White House.

Q. Well, will you tell us how they gassed those who were unable to go into the normal gas chambers? How did they take care of that?

A. They were cremated at Pscezinki.

Q. Did they have a large barn there into which they crowded the people and then dropped the gas in through the chimney?

A. No. It was a small barn, and it was usually known under the name of the "white house."
Q. And will you describe that to us, what happened there?


The fact Abend calls it by a specific name is meaningless, he describes it exactly as the white house some distance from the camp.

As you have been to Auschwitz (so have I btw) you should have seen it, http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Bi ... au03B.html

Below is a picture of the ruins of Crematorium V which was blown up by the Nazis on Jan. 26, 1945, the day before the 60th Army of the First Ukrainian Front arrived to liberate the remaining prisoners. Crematorium V was built outside the barbed wire enclosure of the barracks and just north of Crematorium IV. The little white house which was used as the second temporary gas chamber was located a considerable distance northeast of Crematorium V, but close to the mass grave of the Soviet Prisoners of War who died in the camp when it was first opened
Image

Another source

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... anstalten/

The buildings where the ovens were being installed were Bunker 1 and Bunker 2, also known as the "little red house" and "little white house." These are two lesser-known killing chambers of the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex

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Post by Lucius Felix Silla » 13 Jul 2004 16:07

alf wrote:The answer was given , how did you miss it? it was the White House.

Q. Well, will you tell us how they gassed those who were unable to go into the normal gas chambers? How did they take care of that?

A. They were cremated at Pscezinki.

Q. Did they have a large barn there into which they crowded the people and then dropped the gas in through the chimney?

A. No. It was a small barn, and it was usually known under the name of the "white house."
Q. And will you describe that to us, what happened there?


The fact Abend calls it by a specific name is meaningless, he describes it exactly as the white house some distance from the camp.

As you have been to Auschwitz (so have I btw) you should have seen it, http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Bi ... au03B.html

Below is a picture of the ruins of Crematorium V which was blown up by the Nazis on Jan. 26, 1945, the day before the 60th Army of the First Ukrainian Front arrived to liberate the remaining prisoners. Crematorium V was built outside the barbed wire enclosure of the barracks and just north of Crematorium IV. The little white house which was used as the second temporary gas chamber was located a considerable distance northeast of Crematorium V, but close to the mass grave of the Soviet Prisoners of War who died in the camp when it was first opened
Image

Another source

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... anstalten/

The buildings where the ovens were being installed were Bunker 1 and Bunker 2, also known as the "little red house" and "little white house." These are two lesser-known killing chambers of the Auschwitz-Birkenau complex


Pure speculation. The witness say that this little white house (the designation bunker 2 was a postwar fabrication, because don't exist only one contemporaneous document or other source with this name) was in another place than Birkenau, a place called by this witness Pscezinki, wich is a place never existed.

To sum up:
1) The eyewitness don't have never see gas chambers in Birkenau (note that the witness refers very vaguely to gas chamber at singular): he can only say that a group of people was loaded on trucks. From this he derives that they were gassed and cremated!

2) The eyewitness is more detailed in his description of one farm-house...which he locates at Pscezinki. He don't says nothing about the distance from Birkenau.
As for other descriptions, as the history of people always alive after the attempt to gas (!) and launched alive on dig with flames and smoke, i can only affirms that these species of narratives are part of the worst nazipornogreuelpropaganda.

With any probability this witness have heard these stories from other people and after the tragedy of loss one wife and one child he go to testimony his will of revenge against germans. In any normal tribunal this species of witness is evaluted as unreliable.

Best Regards

LFS

PS so according to the sources given by You, in the Bunkers 1 and 2 were being installed ovens? Fantasy. You can post proofs for this assertion?
Last edited by Lucius Felix Silla on 13 Jul 2004 17:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by David Thompson » 13 Jul 2004 16:42

LFS said:
Pure speculation. The witness say that this little white house (the designation bunker 2 was a postwar fabrication, because don't exist only one contemporaneous document or other source with this name) was in another place than Birkenau, a place called by this witness Pscezinki, wich is a place never existed.

This is a classic example of circular "logic," in which the "argument" consists of a conclusion, repeated over and over. Hopefully the speaker is not also rocking back and forth as he speaks.

As for "pure speculation," here's an excellent example:
With any probability this witness have heard these stories from other people and after the tragedy of loss one wife and one child he go to testimony his will of revenge against germans. In any normal tribunal this species of witness is evaluted as unreliable.
This is merely your bizarre notion, presented without any factual basis.

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Post by Lucius Felix Silla » 13 Jul 2004 16:58

David Thompson wrote:LFS said:
Pure speculation. The witness say that this little white house (the designation bunker 2 was a postwar fabrication, because don't exist only one contemporaneous document or other source with this name) was in another place than Birkenau, a place called by this witness Pscezinki, wich is a place never existed.

This is a classic example of circular "logic," in which the "argument" consists of a conclusion, repeated over and over. Hopefully the speaker is not also rocking back and forth as he speaks.


Manifestly, in this matter exists specials rules for historical research, according to You and some others.
According to this logic:
If one witness says "Pscezinki"...ehe, no, he would say Birkenau.He's not wrong, he suffers from memory.
If one SS write Litzmannstadt (Lodz) in one document .. aha, no, no we must read Chelmno/Kulmhof extermination camp. He was wrong, he want write Kulmhof, but for secrecy he writes Litzmannstadt.
One can seriously ask what species of logic is under these assertions...
this logic, not mine, as noted by someone in another thread is called tautology.

Isn't more honestly concedes that this particular witness don't known nothing abouth gas chambers and killing of people?

Best Regards

LFS

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Post by Lucius Felix Silla » 13 Jul 2004 17:05

David Thompson wrote:LFS said:


As for "pure speculation," here's an excellent example:

With any probability this witness have heard these stories from other people and after the tragedy of loss one wife and one child he go to testimony his will of revenge against germans. In any normal tribunal this species of witness is evaluted as unreliable.


This is merely your bizarre notion, presented without any factual basis.


Nothing of bizarre: here of bizarre there only one witness who says that at Pscezinki were one barn house transformed into one gas chamber and adds fantasious particulars on people always alive after one operation of gassing and launched alive in dig with flames.

Only in NMT (=notorious masquerade trials) courts these facts can be taken seriously.

Best Regards

LFS

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Post by xcalibur » 13 Jul 2004 17:15

LFS said:

a place called by this witness Pscezinki, which is a place that never existed


Wrong: The witness is referring to the town or environs of Pszczyna, about 25 km. west of Birkenau. That he is mistaken about his location is perhaps understandable?

Anyway, it's a lovely small southern Polish town. Here is a pic of the castle there:
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Post by Lucius Felix Silla » 13 Jul 2004 17:25

xcalibur wrote:LFS said:

a place called by this witness Pscezinki, which is a place that never existed


Wrong: The witness is referring to the town or environs of Pszczyna, about 25 km. west of Birkenau. That he is mistaken about his location is perhaps understandable?

Anyway, it's a lovely small southern Polish town. Here is a pic of the castle there:


No. Pscezinki don't exists. Pszczyna is totally different name.
But also if you're right and the witness have mispelled the name of Pszczyna, in this little town never existed gas chambers.
You agree with mine conclusions?

LFS

Best Regards

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Post by xcalibur » 13 Jul 2004 17:45

[quote="Lucius Felix Silla"][quote="xcalibur"]LFS said:

[quote] a place called by this witness Pscezinki, which is a place that never existed

Wrong: The witness is referring to the town or environs of Pszczyna, about 25 km. west of Birkenau. That he is mistaken about his location is perhaps understandable?

Anyway, it's a lovely small southern Polish town. Here is a pic of the castle there:

No. Pscezinki don't exists. Pszczyna is totally different name.
But also if you're right and the witness have mispelled the name of Pszczyna, in this little town never existed gas chambers.[quote]

Well, I think if there was an error in spelling it was probably on the part of the stenographer who recorded the testimony.

There were three Auschwitz sub-camps in the immediate vicinity of the town of Pszczyna: Altdorf in Stara Wies, Kobio in Kobior, and Radostowitz in Radostowice. All it seems supplied the Pszczyna Forestry Authority with prisoners in the years 1942-43.

As to Dr. Abend's testimony, it does seem possible that one interpretation could be that dead prisoners were cremated in the woods near Pszczyna as the cremation facilities at Birkenau were unable to meet their task. In reading the exchange between the examiner and Dr. Abend there does seem to be an unfortunate juxtaposition of the the description of the "white house" (which we all presume to be the one described at Birkenau) and the cremation at Pszczyna, ie, the execution takes place at Bikenau and the disposal (cremation) of the corpses takes place near Pszczyna.

As for gassing facilities in Pszczyna, obviously there weren't.

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Post by Earldor » 13 Jul 2004 18:05

Lucius Felix Silla wrote:If one SS write Litzmannstadt (Lodz) in one document .. aha, no, no we must read Chelmno/Kulmhof extermination camp. He was wrong, he want write Kulmhof, but for secrecy he writes Litzmannstadt.


Now you're resorting to even more dishonest tactics. You're misrepresenting what other people have said. Some might call that lying, but I'm going to give you the benefit of a doubt, and call it putting a spin on things. Which isn't a whole lot better, when your agenda is Holocaust denial...

You fail to recognize the fact that it was the people in question (Dejaco, Höss, Hössler) who went to Lizmannstadt that proclaimed to have visited Chelmno/Kulmhof in order to study body disposal.

One does not rebut this by saying "the documents don't mention a visit to Chelmno" or by noting that a tiny detail in the story is supposedly wrong and then disqualifying the entire statement. Make no mistake, it is your duty to dig up the evidence to back up your story.

Isn't more honestly concedes that this particular witness don't known nothing abouth gas chambers and killing of people?


No. The reasons for this have been explained to you several times.

By the way, you haven't answered my questions in the other thread:

Do you accept that the Germans used homicidal gas chambers in the Operation Reinhardt death camps? What about Chelmno and Maly Trostinets and the mobile gassings in different locations in Yugoslavia and the USSR? Your silence is deafening.

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Post by Lucius Felix Silla » 13 Jul 2004 18:14

xcalibur wrote:
Lucius Felix Silla wrote:
xcalibur wrote:LFS said:

a place called by this witness Pscezinki, which is a place that never existed

Wrong: The witness is referring to the town or environs of Pszczyna, about 25 km. west of Birkenau. That he is mistaken about his location is perhaps understandable?

Anyway, it's a lovely small southern Polish town. Here is a pic of the castle there:

No. Pscezinki don't exists. Pszczyna is totally different name.
But also if you're right and the witness have mispelled the name of Pszczyna, in this little town never existed gas chambers.

Well, I think if there was an error in spelling it was probably on the part
of the stenographer who recorded the testimony.

There were three Auschwitz sub-camps in the immediate vicinity of the town of Pszczyna: Altdorf in Stara Wies, Kobio in Kobior, and Radostowitz in Radostowice. All it seems supplied the Pszczyna Forestry Authority with prisoners in the years 1942-43.

As to Dr. Abend's testimony, it does seem possible that one interpretation could be that dead prisoners were cremated in the woods near Pszczyna as the cremation facilities at Birkenau were unable to meet their task. In reading the exchange between the examiner and Dr. Abend there does seem to be an unfortunate juxtaposition of the the description of the "white house" (which we all presume to be the one described at Birkenau) and the cremation at Pszczyna, ie, the execution takes place at Bikenau and the disposal (cremation) of the corpses takes place near Pszczyna.

As for gassing facilities in Pszczyna, obviously there weren't.


Dear Mr. xcalibur,

As always Your tone and logic is appreciate.
But i disagree from Your hypothesis for three reasons:

1) The subcamps cited by You were, without any doubt, part of KL Auschwitz. Only Kobior subcamp (Aussenkommando Kobier) have contact with Forestry Authority in Pszczyna. He was closed in september 1943.
Dr. Abend came in Birkenau in november 1943 and he refers to Hungarian Jews, deported in summer 1944.

2) The exchange in court was:

Q. And what happened to those Hungarian Jews?

A. They also were selected in the selection procedure, and a certain number of people were again gassed and cremated.

Q. Were there so many people being gassed at this time that the normal facilities were not adequate?

A. Do you mean the facilities of the crematorium?

Q. Both the crematorium and the gas chamber.

A. Yes.

Q. Well, will you tell us how they gassed those who were unable to go into the normal gas chambers? How did they take care of that?

A. They were cremated at Pscezinki.

Q. Did they have a large barn there into which they crowded the people and then dropped the gas in through the chimney?

643

A. No. It was a small barn, and it was usually known under the name of the "white house."

Q. And will you describe that to us, what happened there?


So the question is: There (Pscezinki) they (germans) have a large barn (...)

3) No resercher (Piper, Pressac, van Pelt etc.) have never write one word about presumed cremations in Pscezinki/Pszczyna. No cremation facilities were ever found or witnessed here.
4) The facts described by this witness were not only untrue, but also absolutely unreliables as his description of people always alive after the gassing.
5) The witness refers to gas chambers always at singular.

Best Regards

LFS
Last edited by Lucius Felix Silla on 13 Jul 2004 18:51, edited 1 time in total.

xcalibur
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Post by xcalibur » 13 Jul 2004 18:27

Sorry, somewhat off topic:

DT: Do you happen to know if pretrial depositions are available for witnesses such as Dr. Abend, and if so, where they may be found?

Thanks.

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Lucius Felix Silla
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Post by Lucius Felix Silla » 13 Jul 2004 18:49

Earldor wrote:
Lucius Felix Silla wrote:If one SS write Litzmannstadt (Lodz) in one document .. aha, no, no we must read Chelmno/Kulmhof extermination camp. He was wrong, he want write Kulmhof, but for secrecy he writes Litzmannstadt.


Now you're resorting to even more dishonest tactics. You're misrepresenting what other people have said. Some might call that lying, but I'm going to give you the benefit of a doubt, and call it putting a spin on things. Which isn't a whole lot better, when your agenda is Holocaust denial...

You fail to recognize the fact that it was the people in question (Dejaco, Höss, Hössler) who went to Lizmannstadt that proclaimed to have visited Chelmno/Kulmhof in order to study body disposal.

One does not rebut this by saying "the documents don't mention a visit to Chelmno" or by noting that a tiny detail in the story is supposedly wrong and then disqualifying the entire statement. Make no mistake, it is your duty to dig up the evidence to back up your story.

Isn't more honestly concedes that this particular witness don't known nothing abouth gas chambers and killing of people?


No. The reasons for this have been explained to you several times.

By the way, you haven't answered my questions in the other thread:

Do you accept that the Germans used homicidal gas chambers in the Operation Reinhardt death camps? What about Chelmno and Maly Trostinets and the mobile gassings in different locations in Yugoslavia and the USSR? Your silence is deafening.



None dishonesty. Please stop this absolutely innapropriate tone. Dishonest is only who want read a contrary truth basing himself on postwar "confessions" which are in contrast with contemporaneous documents.

This history of the visit at Liztmannstadt/Lodz in order to study body disposal (circumstance which i have never denied) in contemporaneous documents which after the war magically transfigured himself in Kulmhof/Chelmno (circumstance which was totally dismissed by the fact that Blobel don't have nothing to do with Chelmno. See Massentötungen durch Giftgas,cit, p.115: "two cremation ovens were erected, which were designed by Polizei-Oberleutnant Gustav H. [...] The cremation ovens had a width of 10 m and a length of 5-6 m. They did not extend outside of the earth. They had no chimneys. They tapered downwards where the gratings were located, which consisted of railroad tracks." )
remember me the sad history of Dr. Johann Paul Kremer and his diary.

In his diary (he was in Birkenau, autumn 1942) none reference to gas chambers or mass killings of people were presents. But after the war he must confess that in reality he have made references to gas chambers and operations of gassing, to save his life.

So who's honest or dishonest?

You always ask me. for one time ask Yourself.

Best Regards

LFS

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