Auschwitz testimony of SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Oswald Pohl

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Auschwitz testimony of SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Oswald Pohl

Post by David Thompson » 14 Jul 2004 02:37

Oswald Pohl was the head of the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office (SS-Wirtschafts- und Verwaltungshauptamt or SS-WVHA) from 2 Feb 1942 until the end of the war. Among the many responsibilities of the SS-WVHA was the administration of the concentration camp system. In 1947 he and his subordinates were put on trial at Nuernberg by an American Military tribunal for war crimes. During the trial, Pohl took the witness stand and testified on his own behalf. Here is a brief biographical sketch of Oswald Pohl, followed by the extracts of his testimony which were published in volume 5 of the NMT proceedings (the Green Books).

Pohl, Oswald (30.6.1892-7.6.1951) [SS-Obergruppenfűhrer und General der Waffen-SS] – NSDAP: 30842; SS: 147614; WWI service as naval officer; assigned to Free Corps (Freikorps) Brigade von Löwenfeld combatting insurgents in Upper Silesia and the Ruhr region; chief of section IV on the staff of the Reichsfűhrer-SS and chief of administration in the SS Main Office (Chef der Abteilung IV im Stab Reichsführer-SS & Chef des Verwaltungsamt in SS-Hauptamt) 1 Feb 1934; Ministerial Director, Reich Interior Ministry (Ministerialdirektor in Reichsministerium des Innern) Jun 1939-8 May 1945; chief, SS-WVHA/SS Economic & Administrative Main Office (Chef SS-Wirtschafts- und Verwaltungshauptamt) 1 Feb 1942-8 May 1945 {arrested 27 May 1947 while working as a farm laborer under the name "Ludwig Gniss" by British special investigators near Bremen (LT 29 May 1946:3d); indicted 13 Jan 1947 by an American military tribunal at Nuremberg in the "WVHA case" (NYT 14 Jan 1947:17:6); put on trial on charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity arising out of his administration of concentration camps and the use of slave labor while serving as chief of the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office and administrator of the sprawling SS wartime industrial empire; and also charged with being a member of a criminal investigation – the General SS (Allgemeine-SS) (NYT 15 Jul 1948:12:5); convicted and sentenced to death by hanging 3 Nov 1947 (NYT 4 Nov 1947:12:1; LT 4 Nov 1947:3g); clemency refused 31 Jan 1951 by General Thomas T. Handy, US armed forces commander in Europe (NYT 1 Feb 1951:1:2); executed 7 Jun 1951 at Landsberg-am-Lech prison (NYT 7 Jun 1951:1:7; LT 8 Jun 1951:6d; Encyclopedia of the Third Reich p. 711; Auschwitz Chronicles p. 820; SS: Roll of Infamy p. 133; Dienstaltersliste der Schutzstaffel der NSDAP [9 Nov 1944]; Third Reich Historical Forum, "Landsberg Executions,"}

Extracts From Testimony of Defendant Pohl, in Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals Under Control Council Law No. 10, United States v. Oswald Pohl, et. al. (Case 4: 'Pohl Case') US Government Printing Office, District of Columbia: 1950, Vol. 5: pp. 664-669.


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PRESIDING JUDGE TOMS: But what about the intentional extermination program? That was started long before the collapse of the German defense,² or don't you know anything about that either ?

DEFENDANT POHL: Mr. President, I do not know what extermination program you are referring to. I do know that the transfer of the camps further into the Reich and that the placing of these masses within the Reich were based on an extermination program.

Q. I am talking about the intentional extermination of the old, the sick, and the Jews; whether they were able-bodied or not; by shooting, by hanging, and by gassing, especially at Auschwitz. Didn't you know anything about the extermination at Auschwitz?

A. Of course I had knowledge of it. The whole extermination program, which was directed against the Jews, was an action which was channeled through the RSHA and for which Eichmann organized transports of Jews who came to Auschwitz and were exterminated by Hoess. That program had nothing to do with the concentration camps as such, and the existing concentration camps were actually misused in this respect. The documents and the reports for this program, as far as I am informed, did not even go through the Inspectorate of Concentration Camps. This was all carried out in a very small circle.

Q. But on a very large scale?

A. Well, I had the first authentic figures after the war. At that time I did not have any idea at all that this number extended to millions. The whole program of the extermination of the Jews was dealt with by Amt IV of the RSHA, and the organizer of the transports was a certain man named Eichmann who sent these transports to Auschwitz, and there these transports were exterminated by Hoess, who in this case did not act as camp commander but as commissioner of Himmler or the Reich Government.
¹ Complete testimony is recorded in mimeographed transcript, 16, 19-23, 27-29 May; 2, 3 June; and 25 August 1947; pp. 1253-2040, 6759-6786.
² The testimony immediately preceding this question is reported in the section on "Concentration Camp System," p. 348. The reference in the question is to Pohl's statement that conditions in concentration camps had deteriorated in the last phase of the war.


Q. Were you in charge of the concentration camps while this program was being carried out by RSHA?

A. I do not know when this program started.

Q. Well, no matter when it started, was it being carried on at any time while you were in charge of concentration camps?

A. Whether in the year 1942 or 1943 this extermination was still carried out I don't know. I don't know how long it lasted.

Q. Well, it is your contention they just borrowed the concentration camps to carry out the extermination program?

A. That is my opinion, yes.

Q. Just one second. In order to carry out the extermination program they had to build gas chambers at the concentration camps?

A. Yes. But I did not have any gas chambers constructed. I did not give any order whatsoever that gas chambers should be established.

Q. Well, were they constructed while you were in charge?

A. I do not know exactly in what years the gas chambers at Auschwitz were erected.

Q. Well, no matter when they were erected, were they there and operating while you were in charge?

A. As long as Jews were exterminated the gas chambers were working and operating.

Q. And was that while you were in charge of concentration camps?

A. I cannot say that, because I have visited Auschwitz only once in 1944 and perhaps twice in 1943. At that time I did not see that Jews were being exterminated. I, therefore, do not know how long this program was underway.

Q. Did you see any gas chambers when you were there?

A. I have seen the gas chambers as buildings in the distance, yes.

Q. You knew they were there.

A. Yes. I knew that.

Q. What did you think they were being used for?

A. I knew that Jews were being exterminated and that the gas chambers were being used for that purpose.

Q. And when you saw them and knew that Jews were being exterminated, you were in charge of that concentration camp?

A. Yes. The gas chambers were standing there until the last day. They were standing there also when the concentration camps were subordinate to me. They were not destroyed previously.

Q. Nor afterwards. They continued to be operated after you were put in charge?


A. As far as the extermination of the Jews was carried on, yes, but I do not know how long this continued.

Q. Well, at least it continued as long as you were in charge.

A. I do not know how long it was continued. I do not know when the last Jews were exterminated.

Q. Well, you are trying to evade it, perhaps not intentionally. At any rate, after you became chief of the concentration camps, the gas chambers at Auschwitz and elsewhere continued to work?

A. I assume that, yes, naturally.

Q. Did you ever do anything to find out why people were being gassed to death, or did you ever protest against that program?

A. On two occasions I discussed with Himmler the entire Jewish extermination program. The first time it was approximately in the spring of 1943. At that time I had discovered, on my trips to Oranienburg, that the Jews whom I always used to meet when they came out of the Schering Works in the afternoon in large numbers, and who worked there as laborers, suddenly did not appear any more. The streets were empty. This attracted my attention so much that I pointed out this fact to Himmler during my next discussion, and I asked him why the Jews had been taken away from there and he told me, "Well, all the Jews from Berlin are now being sent to Theresienstadt." I considered this statement to be true at the time. I discussed this matter the second time with Himmler after the speech at Poznan. That was in October 1943. That was the first time, at Poznan. He told the SS Leaders that the Jews were to be exterminated. This was the first official notification which came to my knowledge. After this speech I talked to Obergruppenfuehrer Schmidt, von Herff, and other comrades, and we discussed the thing over the table. Their concepts of this speech and their opinions were not uniform at all. To the contrary, we were rather surprised about the way in which the Jewish question was now to be solved in such a brutal manner. For this reason, on the occasion of our next meeting, I again talked to Himmler about this, because I had been assigned the labor allocation. Otherwise I wouldn't have talked to him at all. We discussed labor allocations. On that occasion I told him that I still considered it stupid now, at the time when all the labor was so valuable to us, that I considered it madness to exterminate these people now. He became very angry, then he pressed his lips together and told me, "Well, that is none of your business. You do not know anything about this, and furthermore, you are too soft." Then he went to the adjoining room. He left me standing there, and approximately after 5 minutes he returned, and then he dismissed me by saying, "I have nothing further for you." Besides this I had no discussion with him about that.


Q. Your objection to the extermination program was that it was interfering with your labor supply?

A. As I have already stated, I probably would have never even been able to talk to Himmler if I had started any other way. I was fundamentally opposed to the entire question, because the solution to the Jewish question, if it was necessary, in this form seemed to be most inappropriate.

Q. But the only objection that you expressed to Himmler was that his program was killing off a lot of your valuable workers.

A. With this argument I tried to bring about a discussion, and I have already stated there was no other argument with which I could have started an argument with him at all, but even this method failed.

Q. You didn't try the argument that this was wholesale murder?

A. I did not use this argument, which was clear to me, because this would have caused him much less to have started a discussion with me. I had to bring him into a situation which would throw him into a discussion, but even this method failed.

Q. Did it occur to you that it was wholesale murder?

A. Of course I considered this as mass murder, and I still consider it that today.

Q. But you went right back to the concentration camps and continued to administer them?

A. These gas chambers were only at Auschwitz. I did not see any other extermination facilities at other camps.

Q. Didn't you see the one at Dachau?

A. No. I never saw it.

Q. Have you never seen it?

A. No. Not one at Dachau. I never saw it.

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DR. SEIDL (counsel for defendant Pohl) : I shall now proceed to the discussion of the documents which the prosecution introduced in evidence with regard to the question of the extermination of the Jews. In other words, I shall turn to those documents contained in document books 18 and 19. Witness, you joined the National Socialist Party very early, didn't you? What was your opinion concerning the Jewish question yourself to which the Party program takes up some position, and what is your opinion on the solution of this question?

DEFENDANT POHL: When I joined the Party neither Jewish questions nor other racial questions moved me to join the Party, and as I have stated on the first day of my examination already, it was my interest in the social sphere of the life of the German


laborers that moved me to join the Party. Apart from that, only defense questions played a part in that because I was a soldier. At the moment I joined the Party I did not deal with the Jewish question, nor did I deal with any other racial questions, and only after that I learned more facts about it through literature and other publications. With regard to the Jewish question, as I personally had no opportunity to gather experience of my own, I had no actual opinion on that. Therefore, I saw no necessity for the solution of the Jewish problem from my own experience. That was the reason why I didn't deal with that question, neither politically nor propagandistically.

Q. The prosecution introduced as Prosecution Exhibit 457 an excerpt from the sentence of the International Military Tribunal which deals with the persecution of the Jews, in document book 18, on page 1 in both the English and German texts. This is document NO-2610,* and I ask you, Witness, when were you for the first time aware of Hitler's measures, the aim of which was the extermination of the Jews?

A. Measures, having heard of measures? Well, after all we all went through those things in Germany. That is, the measures that were taken by the Reich Government, it was published in the press.

Q. Witness, I have to interrupt you. Those are not the measures that were aimed at the extermination of the Jews, and what I want to know from you is when you first found out, or gained knowledge of the fact, or rather, the measures as they are contained in the judgment of the International Military Tribunal.

A. The first official news I received of an extermination program of the Reich Government I had through Himmler's speech in Poznan early in October 1943. That was the first time when I officially heard about the extermination program.

Q. And you reacted to this speech in the manner in which you already described yesterday, or the day before yesterday, to this Tribunal?

A. Yes.

Q. That is, by speaking with Himmler?

A. Yes. At least I tried to speak with Himmler about it.

* * * * * * * * * *

Q. As Prosecution Exhibit 507, the prosecution introduced a report concerning the demolition of the Warsaw ghetto which you wrote yourself on 29 October 1943 to the Reich Leader SS Himmler. This document, NO-2503, on page 114 of the English docu-
* "Persecution of the Jews" appearing in the judgment of the International Military Tribunal is reproduced in this document. See Trial of Major War Criminals, vol. I, op. cit. supra, pp. 247-258.


ment book and on page 159 of the German document book 20. I ask you, Witness, what were the reasons that compelled the Reich Leader SS Himmler to destroy the Warsaw ghetto, and who was it that carried out the measures in connection with that, in detail? When you answer this question I want you to take a look at Documents NO-2505, Prosecution Exhibit 509, and NO-2504, Prosecution Exhibit 510 in document book 20, and also the teletype of Kammler to Himmler, which was introduced as NO-2515, Prosecution Exhibit 511. They are on pages 123, 124, and 127 of the English document book 20.

A. The reasons for this destruction were given by Himmler himself in his order to the Higher SS Police Leader East. (NO-2494, Prosecution Exhibit 501.) By that, apparently, they wanted to eliminate certain hiding places of the resistance movement. I already said before that the technical execution took place, or was carried out by Amtsgruppe C, whereupon it was reported to Himmler through me.

However, all this was not carried out to the end because the Higher SS and Police Leader Krakow transferred it to the central construction administration in Warsaw for reasons which are unknown to me. That is how this came to an end.

* * * * * * * * * *

Q. Now I shall proceed to Document NO-2368. It is in document book 21, on page 25 of the English and on page 24 of the German document book. This is an affidavit of a man by the name of Friedrich Entress which was introduced by the prosecution as Prosecution Exhibit 516.

* * * * * * * * * *

Q. With reference to paragraph 19 of this affidavit I ask you, Witness, did you, during your visit in Auschwitz in 1943, talk, or did you have the construction of the crematoriums explained to you in the office of the construction group there?

A. During my visit there I went to the construction office — that is correct — and I wanted to know about the general construction situation on the basis of a map of the camp on which the crematorium and the gas chambers had been drawn. The reason of this explanation, however, was to find out what billets were ready, which ones were being constructed, and which ones were being planned. Such an explanation usually always preceded one of my visits to one of these construction projects there.

JUDGE PHILLIPS: This affidavit says that you came to Auschwitz for an inspection and at the time you were there the plan for the enlargement of the crematoriums which was in the process of construction was explained to you? What do you say about that?

DEFENDANT POHL: The plan of the crematoriums was not ex-


plained to me. It says in this exhibit, that Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff explained to me the plans for the expansion of the camp. The plans were on the wall and the crematoriums to be constructed or under construction could be seen from there. And —

Q. Did you see that?

A. Yes. I saw that.

Q. Did you discuss it with him?

A. No. We did not discuss the construction in detail. We just discussed the main items that were on the map, and I only demanded an explanation as to what construction projects were finished, which ones were being built and which ones were being planned, and then we went through the construction project, and we took a look at it.

Q. Just confine yourself to the crematorium. Didn't you ask him why it was being enlarged, for what reason it was being enlarged ?

A. No. I never discussed that.

Q. Why didn't you? Why didn't you?

A. Well, 1 had no reason to do so because I did not order the construction of the crematorium.

Q. You knew that the transports were becoming bigger and people were coming in and took more space than the crematorium to kill them. You knew that, didn't you?

A. I did not know that the transports were becoming larger. I had no idea whatsoever as to how many transports were arriving there because I had nothing to do with the transports that were coming to Auschwitz for extermination. That matter, as I later on found out, was a special order of Himmler to Hoess. We were to establish an Amt W IV, and I have no knowledge about the number of the transports, or about the dates of their arrival. I have no information whatsoever nor did I receive any report to that effect. Therefore, I could not recognize the reason for extending such an installation and I didn't head it myself. An extension of the crematory —

Q. I didn't ask you for a speech. I asked you a question. You answer that. Just answer my question. Did you go and visit the crematory and gas chamber while you were there on an inspection tour?

A. No.

Q. Why didn't you if you were inspecting the camp?

A. I had nothing to do with the crematory and the gas chamber.

Q. The camp was under your supervision, wasn't it?

A. Yes.

Q. Then why didn't you see everything that was in the camp? It was under your supervision.


A. The extermination of the Jews and the gas chamber was not part of my field of tasks, therefore, I had no reason whatsoever to examine these installations. I saw them while walking but I did not look at them closer because I had nothing to do with them. I went to Auschwitz in order to see the billets and the quarters of the inmates because in Auschwitz there was an enormous amount of work to be done. That's why we didn't have enough barracks. That is what I saw.

JUDGE MUSMANNO: When you saw these gas chambers you, of course, realized the purpose to which they were put to?

DEFENDANT POHL: Yes. That was clear to me, your Honor.

Q. You knew that people were going to be killed in these gas chambers?

A. Yes. I knew that.

PRESIDING JUDGE Toms: And you knew they weren't large enough to accommodate the number of people to be killed?

DEFENDANT POHL: No, your Honor. I did not know that.

Q. Why did you think they were making them larger?

A. I did not know whether the gas chambers were being enlarged or whether they were rebuilt at the time because only now the basins — later on I found out that these two basins which had been in a different spot had been rebuilt — the entire installation had been rebuilt. Whether or not they were enlarged I could not tell.

Q. But you found out they were adequate to take care of the business that was expected?

A. I only heard that this extermination installation was built. I didn't know it was to be extended.

Q. Well, wasn't it explained to you that in addition to more billets that they needed additional crematoriums?

A. No.

Q. You say you saw them walking by. Who did you see walking by?

THE INTERPRETER: He saw them while walking by, your Honor.

PRESIDING JUDGE TOMS: Did you see any of the inmates on their way to the crematorium?


Q. Who built the crematoriums in the first place?

A. The crematoriums were built by the construction department in Auschwitz.

Q. Well, was that Amtsgruppe C?

A. Yes, your Honor.

Q. And that was one of your offices, wasn't it?

A. Yes. That's correct:


Q. Well, you know when one of your departments was building these crematoriums?

A. No. The plans for the construction — that is construction projects as a whole were not directed to Amtsgruppe C individually. The channel to Amtsgruppe C went through the, Construction Management, Central Construction Management, Inspectorates to Berlin. The competency for the construction had been transferred to the Inspectorate.

Q. All right, it was Amtsgruppe C II that built the crematorium.

A. I do not know of that, your Honor, but in Amtsgruppe C I never saw any plans for crematoriums nor did I ever discuss that matter with anyone.

Q. You never saw or heard anything? But tell me whether or not Amtsgruppe C II built the crematoriums.

A. I do not know that, your Honor. You mean construction? Well the Bauleitungen [construction managements] carried out the construction itself. Whether the plans were made in C II I do not know.

Q. Well, where else would they be carried out?

A. The plans could also originate with the construction department or the Inspectorate. I even assume that they originated with the Inspectorate.

Q. That's the same Inspectorate that was made part of your organization in March 1942 ?

A. No.

Q. "No." I know what you are going to testify.

A. No. The Construction Inspectorates had nothing to do with the Inspectorate of the Concentration Camps, your Honor. We are now speaking of the construction organizations. In other words the channels through Amtsgruppe C down to the construction department were the following: Amtsgruppe C, Construction Inspectorate, Central Construction Office [management] and Construction Office, and Amtsgruppe C, during the war, transferred its competency to the Construction Inspectorate because during the war only certain emergency constructions were being carried out. The Amtsgruppe C limited itself to the accounts of the yearly contingents for the entire construction of the Reich and also in repairing various buildings and other ministerial tasks. Therefore, I only heard once that the plans for the crematoriums of the extermination chambers were not to come from the SS construction units. I understand they came from Bouhler's agency but I do not know for sure.

Q. Well, answer this question please. Do you know who built the crematoriums at Auschwitz?

A. The crematoriums in Auschwitz were undoubtedly built by


the construction department in Auschwitz.

Q. Do you know who enlarged the crematoriums at Auschwitz?

A. Your honor, the planning or do you mean the construction?

Q. Both.

A. That must have gone through the construction department at Auschwitz. I know nothing further.

Q. Construction department of what?

A. Construction department Auschwitz was under the Central Construction Office of the Construction Inspectorate Poznan; the competent ministerial office was Amtsgruppe C.

Q. Sure. Well, it was done by some branch of the SS, was it not?

A. Yes. That's correct, your Honor.

PRESIDING JUDGE TOMS: I guess that's as near as we can get to it.

* * * * * * * * * *

Q. You regret that you didn't have the power to leave two organizations that were actually doing the exterminating, the SS and the National Socialist Party?

A. Your Honor, when I heard of this for the first time, that the state government was engaged in a formal plan for the extermination of the Jews, at that time we were not in peace times, but we were at war. According to my fundamental attitude on these questions, in peacetime I would have resigned from my office. However, we were in a war, a war to life and to death in which my Fatherland was engaged. In view of the terrible suffering which was taking place in Germany, in view of the hundreds and thousands of lives, of human phosphor torches, I was confronted by the question, under my oath as soldier. I had to choose between the German people and the Jewish people. Your Honor, I decided in favor of the German people, and I remained in my position during the war. I now state that I did not want to be more of a coward than the hundreds and thousands of young soldiers who sacrificed their lives before the guns of the enemies. If that was a crime, to remain on my post as a soldier during the war, then, your Honor, I am prepared to voluntarily put my head down before the seat of this high Tribunal.

Q. You see, you miss the point. I am not talking about Germany at war at all, and I haven't mentioned any date after 1939. I am talking about 1926, 1934, 1938. You were not a soldier defending your homeland then, were you?

A. I was not, your Honor. In 1936 and 1938, at that time nobody in Germany spoke of the fact that the Jewish people in Germany were to be exterminated. Individual excesses also, if they were carried out by party agencies with the help of the SS and the SA, you cannot describe them as measures for the extermination of


the Jewish people. That is impossible. I have told you that such excesses took place in all countries, before and afterwards. You only have to go to the East now where the Jews before 1938 and after 1938 were killed and maltreated in exactly the same manner. In this case it can only be a question of when the plan of the Reich Government to exterminate the Jewish people was put into effect, and as can be seen by the documents, I believe that it appeared for the first time in 1940 or 1941. At that time we were engaged in a war, and the men who had this on their conscience did not have a bad idea in mind, because in peacetime, I do not think that they would have succeeded in carrying out such an insane policy.

PRESIDING JUDGE Toms: Are there any other questions of this witness?

JUDGE MUSMANNO: I have two questions to put to the witness. The first question rises out of the statement made during the direct examination, and the other just occurred to me now because of the answers he has made to the presiding judge. You said that you had to choose between the Germans and the Jews. Were the Jews making war on Germany that you had to choose between the two?


Q. The Jews had declared war on Germany, they were in the field against Germany, and therefore you had to exterminate them?

A. From the moment on when I had to decide for or against the extermination of the Jews, at that time I had to choose for or against the Jewish people or Germany in the war. I could not express my attitude with regard to the extermination of the Jews individually then through the fact that in the war I said, "I do not like this sort of thing. Germany is engaged in war. I have been a soldier for 30 years, but I am going to leave my post." In that case I would have decided in favor of the Jewish people. At least that is my concept.

* * * * * * * * * *


* * * * * * * * * *

MR. ROBBINS: I would like to turn now to some of the documents in book 3. If you have that before you, will you turn to page 9 of the German book, the Document 1919-PS, Prosecution Exhibit 49. This is the speech by Himmler at Poznan, which you have referred to several times. Were you at Poznan when this speech was delivered?


Q. You were in the audience of Gruppenfuehrer who attended the meeting?


A. Yes.

Q. And you heard Himmler say, "What happens to a Russian, to a Czech, does not interest me in the slightest. What nations can offer in the way of good blood of our type, we will take * * *. Whether 10,000 Russian females fall down from exhaustion does not interest me."

A. I have listened to that speech, yes.

Q. You also heard Himmler say in referring to you in that same speech "We have huge armament works in the concentration camps. This is the sphere of activity of our friend, SS Gruppenfuehrer Pohl. Every month we put in many millions of hours of work for armament." You heard that, did you not?

A. Yes.

Q. And then with reference to the clearing out of the Jews, did you hear Himmler say, "I want to talk to you about clearing out of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish race. It's one of those things that's easy to talk about — the Jewish race is being exterminated," and so forth.

A. He personally did not discuss that with me. I only heard that in his speech.

Q. You heard it in his speech?

A. The speech at Poznan, yes.

JUDGE PHILLIPS: What is the date of this speech, please?

MR. ROBBINS: This is 4 October 1943, your Honor. This is Prosecution Exhibit 49, in book 3. And then with reference to the clearing out of the Jews, did you hear Himmler say this about you? "We have taken from them what wealth they had. I have issued a strict order, which SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl has carried out, that this wealth should, as a matter of course, be handed over to the Reich without reserve." You heard that, did you not?


Q. Now, I ask you to turn to the last part of this document, which is Himmler's speech at Krakow [Kharkov] in April 1943.

JUDGE MUSMANNO: Mr. Robbins, before you proceed to the next speech, I just want to ask a question or two about the Poznan speech. Where was this delivered, this speech? Was it in a hall, in an auditorium, or out in the open?

DEFENDANT POHL: This speech was delivered in a hotel where this conference took place. It was in a big hall, a hotel hall.

Q. About how many were present?

A. I estimate there were 100 to 150 persons present.

Q. And how were they invited to the conference? Were they ordered there?


A. They were ordered officially to attend this conference.

Q. Thank you

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