Polish soldiers in the Wehrmacht/Waffen-SS?

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
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Askold
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Re: Polish volunteers?

Post by Askold » 15 Apr 2011 03:53

Polish policeman having a chat with a German
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Orlov
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Re: Polish SS Unit

Post by Orlov » 23 Nov 2011 13:19

Hello,
Ethnic Polish served in 30. Waffen-Grenadier-Division des SS (1. weissruthenien) - there were Polish eks- soldier mobilized to BKA (Byelorrusskaja Krajewaja Abarona).
Also we must remember about Polish prewar citizen, who after 1939 joined to Volksliste. Especially part of them (who served in prewar Polish Cavalry - good trained) - served in SS Cavalry Brigade raised in October 1939. But those soldier was Ethnic German with Polish roots - typical Volksdeutscher.

bestreg
Orlov

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Carnaro
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Re: Polish SS Unit

Post by Carnaro » 23 Nov 2011 14:44

Don't forget the well-known

Polnische-Schutzmannschaft-Bataillon 202...

Technically it was under the aegis of the Ordnungspolizei - through KdO Warschau -, not Waffen-SS, but Ordnungspolizei in its turn was an integral part of the SS und polizei empire under Himmler: Hauptamt-Orpo, RSHA and SS-Hauptamt (etc...).

Moreover, the same Polnische-Blaupolizei, as strictly subordinated to the various Schupo commands, may be considered, by and large, just another structure connected with SS und police empire.

Controversy permitting, of course! :wink:

Max

Rob - wssob2
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Re: Polish SS Unit

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 23 Nov 2011 14:49

Hi Orlov,
Also we must remember about Polish prewar citizen, who after 1939 joined to Volksliste. Especially part of them (who served in prewar Polish Cavalry - good trained)
What exactly is your source that members of the SS Cavalry Brigade were Polish volksdeutsche?

I agree with HFK - there never was a "Polish SS unit" and such a concept would be anathema to Hitler, Himmler et. al. This topic seems to come up every year or so.

Good for Max for pointing out the Schupos, but these auxiliary security/paramilitary forces were indigenous to the local populations regardless of the populations perceived value according to Nazi racist doctrine.

Arto O
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Re: Polish SS Unit

Post by Arto O » 23 Nov 2011 21:20

Hi,
Maybe you already know but there is a very interesting topic about polish in the 5th page: Polish volunteers??????
Arto

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Piotr Mikołajski
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Re: Polish SS Unit

Post by Piotr Mikołajski » 24 Nov 2011 21:02

Orlov wrote:Ethnic Polish served in 30. Waffen-Grenadier-Division des SS (1. weissruthenien) - there were Polish eks- soldier mobilized to BKA (Byelorrusskaja Krajewaja Abarona).
About 380-400 thousand of Polish citizens from areas incorporated into the Reich were conscripted to WH, WM, WL and (from about 1944) SS units between 1939 and 1945. From German point of view they were citizens of the Third Reich even when their knowledge of German language was close to none. But it doesn't make any of their units Polish ones.
Best regards,
Piotr Mikołajski

Arto O
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Re: Polish SS Unit

Post by Arto O » 24 Nov 2011 21:28

Thanks for Info Piotr,
1. Very universal question about a nationality in question of foreign volunteers. Nothing to do in specific of Polish. For me, if somebody was born in the mentioned (whatever) country, whatever were the borders in THAT time, makes him a citicen of that country. A volksdeutch born in Romania, makes him a rumanian. Thats my opinion. Surely a problem for many people.
2. Now the language????? During the WWII or before it (between WWI AND WWII) , what languages were spoken INSIDE the actual borders of Poland? Polish, of course, German for volksdeutsch. What else?
3. How would you consider Galiziens (polish or ukrainians?) Maybe too compilcated question.
Cheers
Arto

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Piotr Mikołajski
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Re: Polish SS Unit

Post by Piotr Mikołajski » 25 Nov 2011 20:27

Ad.1 Well, it's not that easy. In 1918, after 123 years of occupation by Czar Russia, Austro-Hungary and Prussia / Germany, Poland was reborn and regained its independence. Within a little more than 20 years you could be citizen of few countries. For example: someone born in 1917 in Bielsko (Bielsko-Biała nowadays) was citizen of Austro-Hungary, after 1918 he became citizen of Poland, after 1939 he became citizen of Third Reich. All this stuff without moving from your own house. There are a lot of people who served in the Polish Army before war and during 1939 Campaign, for a short time became POWs and after release (because they became citizens of the Third Reich) they were conscripted to the German Army.

Ad.2 It's hard question. The 1921 census had included a nationality question which was replaced in the 1931 census by the "mother tongue" question. This change lowered quantity of minorities and was protested by Ukrainians and Jews, many of whom were bilingual or trilingual. Many Jews considered Polish to be their mother tongue too.

The 1921 census data:
  • 69% - Poles
  • 14% - Ukrainians
  • 8% - Jews
  • 3.9% - Byelorussians
  • 3.8% - Germans
  • 1.3% - Lithuanians, Russians, Czechs and others
The 1931 census data:
  • 68.9% - Poles
  • 10.1% - Ukrainians
  • 8.6% - Jews
  • 3.8% - Russians
  • 3.1% - Byelorussians
  • 2.3% - Germans
  • 1.8% - "the locals"
  • 0.4% - Ruthenians (Ruthenian nationality stands for Ruthenians who did not adopt the Ukrainian ethnic identity in the early 20th century and Lemkos, Boykos, Hutsuls and Rusyns)
  • 1% - others
It means that between 1918 and 1939 following languages were in use: Polish, Ukrainian, Yiddish, Russian, Belarusian (with local dialects), German, Lithuanian, Czech and finally Ruthenian dialects.

Ad.3 This is complicated question, indeed. For me Galicia is geographical name. Of course between 1846 and 1918 Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria existed but it was part of Austro-Hungary. This area had the largest "mix" of nationalities (for example including Armenians) and for me it's impossible to name people living there Poles or Ukrainians.
Best regards,
Piotr Mikołajski

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henryk
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Re: Polish SS Unit

Post by henryk » 26 Nov 2011 19:10

Three other languages spoken: Hebrew, Georgian and Kashubian.

Arto O
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Re: Polish SS Unit

Post by Arto O » 12 Dec 2011 07:00

Thanks Piotr and Henryk,
for your information, all this makes it more confusing but MORE interesting.
Arto

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Askold
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Polish Hiwi in German service?

Post by Askold » 03 Jan 2012 20:00

[Split from "Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht"]

Polish Hiwi in German service:

(photo taken from BKA forum)

Image

Able
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Re: Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht

Post by Able » 03 Jan 2012 20:38

Smart guy.

He's now on 4 times the money he was as a civilian,
plus 3 hots and a cot.
Not to mention all the perks.

Panzermahn
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Re: Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht

Post by Panzermahn » 20 Jan 2012 13:55

Hi all,

I had posted an excerpt from Biddiscombe's excellent The SS Hunter Battalions (Tempus 2006) with regards Polish volunteers at the link below

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0#p1557981

Panzermahn

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Piotr Mikołajski
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Re: Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht

Post by Piotr Mikołajski » 20 Jan 2012 16:17

Askold wrote:Polish Hiwi in German service
Why do you think that this soldier is in German service?
Best regards,
Piotr Mikołajski

Able
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Re: Polish Volunteers In The Wehrmacht

Post by Able » 20 Jan 2012 16:45

I think the man in the picture was in nazi service because it was a good life if you had the stomach for it.

The money was good, the food was good, the drink was good, the camaraderie was good, there were plenty of Wehrmacht brothels where he could rape sex slaves, all the pillaging he wanted, and because he enjoyed racialist crimes.
He could enjoy all the benefits the nazi system bequeathed on its supporters.

Why do you reckon he joined then Piotr?

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