Ohrdruf

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ohrdruf
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Ohrdruf

Post by ohrdruf » 24 Aug 2004 19:11

(1) Sources and reference Material

The OKW and Luftwaffe War Diaries and all copies of them for the period March 1945 have disappearedand are suspected to be in American keeping.
On 7 April 1945 the US Atomic Energy Commission inspected various underground workings at Ohrdruf and removed technical equipment before dynamiting surface entrances. The US authorities have classified all 1945 documents relating to Ohrdruf for a minimum period of 100 years.
Fortunately for researchers, in 1962 a quasi-judicial tribunal sat at Arnstadt in the then DDR to take depositions from local residents for an enquiry entitled "Befragung von Buergern zu Ereignissen zur oertlichen Geschichte". The enquiry was principally interested in what went on at the Ohrdruf Truppenuebungsplatz (TUP) in the latter years of the war. The depositions became common property in 1989 upon the reunification of Germany and may be viewed at Arnstadt Town Hall.

THE OHRDRUF MILITARY TRAINING GROUND
(2) There had been a military training ground at Ohrdruf since Imperial times. It was a large, rugged area of upland, nowadays disused and strewn with shells and other military scrap. Its perimeter can be circumnavigated by Land Rover in about three hours. Through binoculars small parts of the ruins of Amt 10, described below, can be made out but not visited.

During 1936/38 an Army underground telephone/telex exchange known as Amt 10 was built in the limestone strata below the TUP. Its entrances were disguised as chalets. The bunker was 50 feet down and measured 70 x 20 metres. Both floors had a central corridor about 3 metres wide with rooms either side, and 2 WCs. End-doors were gas-proofed, the installation had central heating, air was supplied under pressure, water drawn from a spring 600 feet below. A 475 hp ship's diesel was on hand as the emergency electrical generator, and this piece of equipment plays an important role in understanding the Ohrdruf mystery.

One of the three full-time Reichpost maintenance engineers employed there from 1938 to 1945 stated that Amt 10 was never used until the last few months of the war when it was "more than it seemed" and "its clandestine purpose was fairly obvious."


Col Robert S Allen, a Staff officer with General Patton's Third Army described in his book "Lucky Forward - The History of Patton's Third Army" (New York, 1947) a completed underground reinforced-concrete metropolis 50 feet down "to house the High Command". It was on two or three levels and consisted of galleries several miles in length and "extending like the spokes of a wheel." The location of Hitler's FHQ was not stated and Amt 10 was described misleadingly as "a two-floor deep concrete shelter."

If the structure was built like a wheel,, the FHQ would logically be at the hub, and Amt 10 was at the hub. Allen's description of Amt 10 as having two floors on April 1945 conflicts with the evidence of two persons who worked there: one hinted that there were more than two floors, the other testified there were three. The latter witness also stated that Amt 10 was two great bunkers of the same size, each of three floors, but not connected except by underground piping. Each bunker was guarded on each level by an SS sentry and passes for each entrance were not common to both. The most likely explanation is that the second bunker was constructed in 1944 at the same time as a third level was added to the first Amt 10 bunker as the Fuehrer-suite.

As regards the second bunker, a witness stated that in 1944 there was an installation below the TUP which created an electro-magnetic field capable of stopping the engines of a conventional aircraft at seven miles. During the war, the Allies never photographed Ohrdruf from the air, nor bombed it, even though their spies must have assured them it was crawling with SS and scientific groups. A German electro-magnetic field which interfered with their aircraft at altitudes of up to seven miles is admitted by a 1945 USAF Intelligence document. The USAF suspected that it was a device to bring down their bombers, but it obviously had some other purpose, or it would have been operating below Berlin.

Many Arnstadt witnesses described occasions when electrical equipment and automobile engines cut out. They always knew when this was about to happen, for the ship's diesel engine at Amt 10 would smoke. A diesel motor is not affected by an electro-magnetic field. In 1980, Russians scientists were still able to measure the field on their equipment, but they were never able to identify the source.


THE FHQ AT OHRDRUF

The FHQ at Ohrdruf is not admitted by academic historians. However, the evidence for it is strong:

(a) S-III was an SS military factory complex below Jonastal nearOhrdruf where 1000 Buchenwald inmates began digging in June 1944. No decision had been taken to build an FHQ in Thuringia before 24 August 1944.

(b) In September 1944, a geologist consulted by SS-WVHA regarding the suitability of Jonastal for an FHQ suggested the TUP at Ohrduf instead.

(c) In October 1944, General von Gockl, TUP.commandant, evacuated all Wehrmacht personnel from the plain. Within a fortnight the notorious Ohrdruf-KZ had been set up while SS-Fuehrungsstab SIII, in charge of the FHQ project, occupied a school at nearby Luisenthal. Firms working on building projects in Poland were ordered immediately to Ohrdruf.

(d) At the end of 1944, Hauptsturmfuehrer Karl Sommer, deputy head of WVHA-DH (forced labour) assembled a workforce at Buchenwald to build a secret FHQ named S-III at Ohrdruf. S-III had a fully-equipped telephone-telex exchange before work started, thus identifying it as around Amt 10.

(e) Hitler's Luftwaffe ADC Oberstlt von Below stated in his memoirs that in early 1945 he visited the location of the new Thuringian FHQ and it was at the TUP Ohrdruf.

(f) In late January 1945, Hitler spoke openly of evacuating Ministry staff from Berlin "perhaps to Oberhof in Thuringia".

(g) In compliance with order 71/45 and the communique from FHQ Berlin issued by Wehrmacht ADC General Burgdorf on 9 March 1945, General Krebs of the Army General Staff reported that between 12 February and 29 March 1945 a substantial proportion of OKH Staff had transferred to the Ohrdruf area.

(h) On the nights of 4 and 12 March 1945, "a small explosive of terrific destructive power" was tested on the TUP. 200 KZ inmates and 20 SS guards were scorched to death on the first test due to a miscalculation of the extent of the effect. The bodies were immolated on a common pyre, the ashes being scattered across central Germany from aircraft. In mid-March, a 30-metre long rocket was reported test fired into the night sky from a weapons site within five miles of TUP Ohrdruf. The Amt 10 telephone engineer gave evidence that "200 so-called female signals auxiliaries" arrived to staff the second bunker in this period. Why they were "so-called" is not explained.

(i) In early March 1945, Org Todt began work on the Brandleite railway tunnel at Oberhof to accommodate the special trains of Hitler and Goering, installed a telephone exchange in the station-master's house and positioned flak batteries on surrounding peaks.

(j) A witness stated that the Fuehrer-Sperrkreis at Ohrdruf was called Burg and alleged that Hitler spent at least one day there in late March 1945.

(k) In late March a Luftwaffe mutiny occurred in which General Barber and over three hundred pilots and air base command personnel were executed for refusing to obey an unknown order (the Luftwaffe War Diaries for March and first part April 1945 have vanished).

(l) Upon his arrest in May 1945, Goering told his captors that he had engineered the mutiny thus saving the world by "refusing to deploy bombs that could have destroyed all civilisation." It was freely reported at the time, since nobody knew what on earth he meant.

END


Within reason, I will supply sources for any of the above statements upon request. Ohrdruf

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Kim
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Post by Kim » 25 Aug 2004 18:27

Very interesting,Ohrdruf. I plan on looking into this further.
Thanks,
Kim

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Post by Oberst_Emann » 26 Aug 2004 08:23

Truth definately is stranger than fiction. This is another sad case of the Western Allies' "crafting" of history after the war. The alleged nuclear bomb tests in Ruegen Island and Tunguska have me really interested though. Does the Jonastal/Ohrdruf facility still exist today, or is it closed off by the military?

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Post by ohrdruf » 26 Aug 2004 14:34

Oberst E-mann

For more information, call up Yahoo Search and enter "Harald Faeth". Click on the first item "WWII Underground Systems Research Group" and "Click Me" the top item.

Do not be misled by terms. There was no German atomic explosive. In Hitler's table-talks, he occasionally mentioned an "uraniumbombe" which he had under development. This was Hitler's "miracle weapon" which would have been mass-produced. The tests at Ohrdruf were of this explosive which had certain characteristics of a nuclear explosion but an entirely different effect.

The whole purpose of building the fleet of Me 262 jet fighters as bombers was to carry this weapon. If you re-read the article about Ohrdruf you will observe the point made about the ship's diesel at Amt 10. A jet engine is not susceptible to an electro-magnetic field.

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Post by Oberst_Emann » 26 Aug 2004 19:00

Interesting. Thanks, I'll check it out.

As I recall, they're was a special Heinkel He-177 built to carry some strange sort of bomb, if I could find the picture, I'll post it here.

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Post by Annelie » 30 Aug 2004 15:21

Ohrdruf,

I hope this thread will continue as I find it extremely
interesting.

Thanks.

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Post by ohrdruf » 06 Sep 2004 22:31

A further interesting set of depositions from the 1962 Arnstadt DDR enquiry refer to the test of a rocket apparently the size of an A9/10 "Amerika" rocket.

Witness (1) was Claere Werner, throughout the war custodian of the Wachsenburg watch-tower. She stated that a rocket with a huge tail-fire was fired after 2100 hrs on the night of 16 March 1945 while she was looking through binoculars towards Ichtershausen. She had been informed earlier by a friend working for the Reichspost Sonderbauvorhaben at Arnstadt that a tremendous achievement was to be celebrated in the sky that night.

Witness (2) was a former KZ-inmate who gave evidence to the DDR tribunal that he helped erect staging for "an enormously long rocket" at MUNA Rudisleben. From the Wachsenburg watch tower, Rudisleben is close to Ichtershausen.

Witnesses (3) and (4) were a technician and fuel system engineer respectively who all stated that they worked on the construction of a huge rocket over 30 metres in length which was fired on the night of 16 March 1945 at Polte II underground facility, one km from Rudisleben.

The first of the rocket series successfully tested that night may have been intended as the carrier for the mysterious explosive referred to in the opening article of this thread, and intended to bring New York under attack, as had been promised by Hitler in his references to a miracle weapon in "Hitlers Tischgespraeche" (Picker's version). Following this successful launch, at what stage the rocket could have entered series production is an interesting question.

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Post by Annelie » 07 Sep 2004 00:44

ohrdruf


YOu have piqued my interest......
" in 1944 there was an installation below the TUP which created an electro-magnetic field capable of stopping the engines of a conventional aircraft at seven miles. During the war, the Allies never photographed Ohrdruf from the air, nor bombed it, even though their spies must have assured them it was crawling with SS and scientific groups. A German electro-magnetic field which interfered with their aircraft at altitudes of up to seven miles is admitted by a 1945 USAF Intelligence document. The USAF suspected that it was a device to bring down their bombers, but it obviously had some other purpose, or it would have been operating below Berlin.

Points (I) and (J) only add to the mystery.

I did an quick search on the net and could find very little,
other than the link you suggested.
Would be interesting to know what formidable persons worked
on this project? Von Braun perhaps?

Oberst_Emann
Does the Jonastal/Ohrdruf facility still exist today, or is it closed off by the military?
It is officially closed but still accesible through holes etc.

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Annelie
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Post by Annelie » 07 Sep 2004 01:01

Ohrdruf.

I did find of interest.......


" http://www.politikforen.de/archive/inde ... -1435.html "

Nebukadnezar
Verfügte das Dritte Reich über Atombomben und interkontinentale Trägerraketen?
Die veröffentlichte Geschichtsschreibung behauptet, das Dritte Reich habe das Projekt der Entwicklung einer Atombombe im Jahre 1942 storniert. Dieses Buch liefert eine Vielzahl hochbrisanter neuer Indizien und unglaublicher Fakten sowie bisher unveröffentlichte Zeugenaussagen, welche diese Auffassung widerlegen.
Die Autoren zeigen, daß die deutsche Nuklearwaffe fertig war und das Trägersystem in Form einer Interkontinentalrakete kurz vor seiner Fertigstellung stand. Das Zentrum beider Geheimwaffen-Programme lag in Thüringen und wurde von SS, Reichspost und der Firma Skoda betrieben.
Die Autoren dokumentieren nicht nur, daß am 4.3.1945 ein Kleinst-Atomtest auf dem Truppenübungsplatz Ohrdruf stattfand, bei dem mehrere hundert Menschen ums Leben kamen, sondern auch, daß am 16. März 1945 vom Boden Thüringens aus der erfolgreiche Start eines Prototypen stattfand.
Darüber hinaus erfahren Sie erstaunliche Details, warum die neuen Waffensysteme nicht eingesetzt wurden, welche Konsequenzen sich aus dem Vorhandensein von geheimen unterirdischen Anlagen im Raum Thüringen ergeben und auch, wo der mächtige General der Waffen-SS, Dr. Ing. Hans Kammler, nach dem Krieg verblieben ist -

Annelie

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HaEn
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Geheimwaffen (secret weapons)

Post by HaEn » 07 Sep 2004 01:33

Spooky is it not ? To think how close they were to delivery, and the possibility of a last moment victory.
I saw a German Jet fighter fly in march 1945,, and a Luftwaffe Colonel told me they had thousands of them, somewhere in Austria; but could not fly them for lack of benzine (gasoline). Indeed there was a mad rush between the americans and russians to see who could get there first. and there were reports that the U.S.A.F. found several hundred, which were shipped to the U.S.
The "forcefields" reaching up into the sky were another German research project, already before the war. Based on Einstein's theories and an Italian scientist Fermi ? who had done sub-atomic field research. (and later worked with the U.S. on the Manhattan project)
Even some generally unfamiliar inventions of Tessla, who had perfected a T.V. before anyone else, and knew a lot about force fields, were involved in this type of research project.
Some pause for thought huh ?
H.N.

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Dan H
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Post by Dan H » 07 Sep 2004 03:16

Rockets with huge tail fire, electro-magnetic force fields - oh my! This is a thought provoking thread to say the least!

/daniel

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Annelie
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Post by Annelie » 07 Sep 2004 11:20

HaEn
I saw a German Jet fighter fly in march 1945,, and a Luftwaffe Colonel told me they had thousands of them, somewhere in Austria; but could not fly them for lack of benzine (gasoline). Indeed there was a mad rush between the americans and russians to see who could get there first. and there were reports that the U.S.A.F. found several hundred, which were shipped to the U.S.
The "forcefields" reaching up into the sky were another German research project, already before the war. Based on Einstein's theories and an Italian scientist Fermi ? who had done sub-atomic field research. (and later worked with the U.S. on the Manhattan project)

Wondered if this had been widely known how the war might
have ended? It certainly was kept under wraps after the war.

If the research into "forcefields" was already well under way before
the war and Fermi was working in U.S. it makes on wonder if
we know how far this forcefield science has progressed?

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Post by Gespenst » 07 Sep 2004 11:21

Indeed... if Germans had a gizmo that could prevent allied bombers from entering some specific airspace... and they only had that in one place!!
Gasp, if only the marvelous scientists and whatnots had proposed similar installations in different locations... ;/
Unless of course, for fairness' sake, we can judge that building one required enormous amount of resources.

From the mysterious bits and pieces that are sometimes written about here, i gather that Germans in fact possessed an arsenal of gadgets that could have easily saved them from defeat, but they chose not to use them in a practical manner for some reason.

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Post by ohrdruf » 07 Sep 2004 14:51

Annelie

There appear to have been two groups of scientists involved on the explosives work. Diebner, an explosives expert and a leading figure in atomic physics, allegedly headed the Official Project, and Seuffert the Waffen-SS Project. Both reported to Gerlach, Plenipotentiary for Nuclear Physics and Grawitz, Head of SS Medical Services.

Regarding the item you quote in German, one has to bear in mind that German WWII researchers in Germany are very closely monitored by German intelligence generally, and around Ohrdruf in particular, although there are two other locations in western Germany which are equally sensitive. I have been spoken to personally by certain gentlemen, and advised of the limits regarding what can be published, but for obvious reasons English language writers are more at liberty to write about what they discover or infer in research into Ohrdruf than Germans.

The German author Harald Faeth, for example, has been visited several times by intelligence agents and his computer terminal, all diskettes and all files removed for examination. His only interest as a writer is Ohrdruf and from his writings he is anti-Nazi. Another German author with whom I corresponded regularly was spoken to by certain gentlemen and is ever since a frightened man.


The upshot of all this is that German writers cannot state all they know, and so go into print suggesting that the two tests at Ohrdruf on 4th and 12th March 1945 were of "a tactical nuclear weapon", a "very small scale atom bomb". This is nonsensical: and it is nonsensical on the evidence, because the independent witnesses state that they looked TOWARDS the explosion through binoculars on a dark night.


The witnesses also describe the explosion as being blast, great heat, hundreds of lightning forks, a tremendous pressure wave and, closer in, the air being consumed, causing in those nearest to it, headaches, nosebleeds, ruptured ear drums and an unpleasant sense of intoxication which lasted for up to a month. It was also reported that there was no radioactivity or fallout. The effect of the explosion seems to have been to create a lightning storm at ground level and, if so, suffocation would have lent the explosion a feature which caused deaths on the scale similar to the Hiroshima atom bomb. Witness Claere Werner stated that she was told repeatedly not to mention the forks of lightning.

I have identified four pieces of literature, two from official sources and two written by authors highly placed in the military field, which may shed a little more light on the device being tested, and I will post this tonight.

There is also a declassified USAF report identifying the Main River at Frankfurt as a place where the engines of their aircraft "were interfered with" by some kind of unknown force field at a height of seven miles, and I will quote the source with an extract.
Last edited by ohrdruf on 07 Sep 2004 15:02, edited 2 times in total.

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Annelie
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Post by Annelie » 07 Sep 2004 14:57

Ohrdruf


I continue to be interested and look forward to
I have identified four pieces of literature, two from official sources and two written by authors highly placed in the military field, which may shed a little more light on the device being tested, and I will post this tonight
Could I assume that there maybe yet another book in the offing
with new information that has yet not been divulged?

Annelie

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