Ostasiatisches ExpeditionKorps

Discussions on all aspects of the German Colonies and Overseas Expeditions. Hosted by Chris Dale.
User avatar
Peter H
Member
Posts: 28628
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Ostasiatisches ExpeditionKorps

Post by Peter H » 01 Sep 2004 10:34

Any experts on the Boxer Rebellion out there?

Is this the correct OOB of the German forces that served in the Boxer Rebellion?

Kiaochow Garrison
In China at start of hostilities:

III Seebataillon(1126 men)
One Marine Horse artillery Battery(111 men)

Kommando Detachment(800 men,some mounted,and raised from civilian volunteers)

Sailors(Matrosen) from the East Asian squadron.

Ostasiatischen ExpeditionKorps
Despatched from Germany 1900.


1. Ostasiatische Infanteriebrigade

1 Ostasiatische Regiment
2 Ostasiatische Regiment

2. Ostasiatische Infanteriebrigade

3 Ostasiatische Regiment
4 Ostasiatische Regiment

Each Infantrie Regiment consisted of only two battalions,of 812 men each.

Ostasiatisches Reiterregiment

600 men.

Ostasiatisches Feld - Artillerieregiment

Three gun and one howitzer batteries.

Ostasiatisches Pionierbataillon

Korps Troops-sanitation,train,munitions,support

Were these Ostasiatischen units made up of volunteers transferring from other regiments and units?

Also this website mentions a 5. Ostasiatische Regiment as well?

http://www.military-photos.com/gboxers.htm

Image
http://www.military-photos.com/BX_ALLB.jpg

User avatar
Chris Dale
Host - German Colonies
Posts: 1918
Joined: 21 Apr 2004 14:48
Location: UK

Post by Chris Dale » 01 Sep 2004 16:57

Hi Peter,
Yes that sounds about right..maybe the 5th regiment was added after the conflict?
Yes they were volunteers from the regular German army, including contingents from different states.
Cheers
Chris

User avatar
Chris Dale
Host - German Colonies
Posts: 1918
Joined: 21 Apr 2004 14:48
Location: UK

Post by Chris Dale » 17 Oct 2005 14:10

I'm trying to work out the different German state origins of the East Asian Expeditionary Corps units. I know only the infantry were divided into different state units. So far I've deduced this list of the infantry regiments. Can anyone tell me if I'm correct with them and also if there were companies from the smaller states such as Hessen or Mecklenburg? I'm assuming the ones I've left blank so far are all Prussian.
Cheers
Chris

1 Regt, I Batt, 1Comp- Guard
1 Regt, I Batt, 2Comp- Guard
1 Regt, I Batt, 3Comp- Guard
1 Regt, I Batt, 4Comp- Guard
1 Regt, II Batt, 5Comp-
1 Regt, II Batt, 6Comp-
1 Regt, II Batt, 7Comp-
1 Regt, II Batt, 8Comp-
1 Regt, 9Comp- Guard

2 Regt, I Batt, 1Comp- Saxon
2 Regt, I Batt, 2Comp- Saxon
2 Regt, I Batt, 3Comp- Saxon
2 Regt, I Batt, 4Comp- Saxon
2 Regt, II Batt, 5Comp-
2 Regt, II Batt, 6Comp-
2 Regt, II Batt, 7Comp-
2 Regt, II Batt, 8Comp-
2 Regt, 9Comp- Baden

3 Regt, I Batt, 1Comp-
3 Regt, I Batt, 2Comp-
3 Regt, I Batt, 3Comp-
3 Regt, I Batt, 4Comp-
3 Regt, II Batt, 5Comp-
3 Regt, II Batt, 6Comp-
3 Regt, II Batt, 7Comp-
3 Regt, II Batt, 8Comp- Wurttemberg
3 Regt, 9Comp-

4 Regt, I Batt, 1Comp-
4 Regt, I Batt, 2Comp- Baden
4 Regt, I Batt, 3Comp-
4 Regt, I Batt, 4Comp- Baden
4 Regt, II Batt, 5Comp- Bavarian
4 Regt, II Batt, 6Comp- Bavarian
4 Regt, II Batt, 7Comp- Bavarian
4 Regt, II Batt, 8Comp- Bavarian
4 Regt, 9Comp-

5 Regt, I Batt, 1Comp-
5 Regt, I Batt, 2Comp-
5 Regt, I Batt, 3Comp- Saxon
5 Regt, I Batt, 4Comp- Saxon
5 Regt, II Batt, 5Comp- Wurttemberg
5 Regt, II Batt, 6Comp- Wurttemberg
5 Regt, II Batt, 7Comp- Wurttemberg
5 Regt, II Batt, 8Comp- Wurttemberg
5 Regt, 9Comp-

6 Regt, I Batt, 1Comp-
6 Regt, I Batt, 2Comp-
6 Regt, I Batt, 3Comp-
6 Regt, I Batt, 4Comp-
6 Regt, II Batt, 5Comp- Bavarian
6 Regt, II Batt, 6Comp- Bavarian
6 Regt, II Batt, 7Comp- Bavarian
6 Regt, II Batt, 8Comp- Wurttemberg
6 Regt, 9Comp-

User avatar
Peter H
Member
Posts: 28628
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Post by Peter H » 17 Oct 2005 14:32

Chris,

What was the significance of the 9th Company?Pioneers?

This photo is from Life Magazine,1964.

Seems that some of them wore Pickelhaubes as well.

Regards,
Peter
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Chris Dale
Host - German Colonies
Posts: 1918
Joined: 21 Apr 2004 14:48
Location: UK

Post by Chris Dale » 17 Oct 2005 15:44

Hi Peter,
That's another mystery to me. The 9th Companies...Pioneers, possibly...anyone else know?
I know the different states also contributed to an East Asian Jäger unit. But I don't know anything more about that either and whether it was split into state companies like the rest of the infantry.
Thanks for the photo too. Yes Pickelhauben were worn and Jäger shakos too. Note Waldersee in the photo is wearing a Uhlan Tschapka presumably from his old Regiment the 13th Hanovarian Uhlans.
Cheers
Chris

User avatar
AKR
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: 27 Oct 2005 11:56
Location: South Africa

East Asian Expeditionary Force

Post by AKR » 30 Oct 2005 12:16

I am wondering if the Photo showing all the guys with pith helmets around the fountain may not in fact belong to the East Asian Occupational Force (Besatzungskorps),which was stationed in China to guard the embassy ,and to keep the trade routes to Tsingtau open, after the Boxer Rebellion from 1901 to 1909 ,when it was finally disbanded.

User avatar
Chris Dale
Host - German Colonies
Posts: 1918
Joined: 21 Apr 2004 14:48
Location: UK

Post by Chris Dale » 31 Oct 2005 01:22

Hi AKR,
As I understand it, the Ostasiatisches Besatzungsbrigade and the Ostasiatisches Expeditionskorps were essentially the same unit. The Besatzungsbrigade simply being a slimmed down, renamed version. I thought the Besatzungsbrigade was formed in 1903 not 1901, but I may be wrong here. Either way I would say strictly speaking these soldiers are from the Expeditionskorps as the writing at the bottom identifies them as from the 5th East Asian Infantry Regiment (5.OIR), whereas the slimmed down Besatzungsbrigade had only three infantry regiments. They are however wearing the newer version of the tropical uniform with concealed buttons introduced in 1901 that was worn by the Ostasiatisches Besatzungsbrigade up unitl 1909 when as you say they were disbanded.
Cheers
Chris

User avatar
Peter H
Member
Posts: 28628
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Post by Peter H » 31 Oct 2005 09:49

The Ostasiatische Besatzungsbrigade was based at Tientsin,Peking (and Kiautschou?).

After 1901 the victorious treaty nations were allowed to maintain permanent forces at twelve points in the Peking, Tientsin,
Chinwangtao triangle for the protection of the Peking legations.

My understanding is that the full strength Besatzungsbrigade (3,600 men)remained deployed until 1906,then reduced to the smaller Ostasiatischen Detachement of around 1,100 men 1906-9.Then replaced by the Ostasiatisches Marine-Detachement (650 men) at Peking,Tientsin,1909-14.

Erich von Falkenhayn did a three year tour with the brigade until around 1904.

Can someone confirm its size,composition and duration of stay in China?

A rough translation from the Deutschen Kolonial-Lexikon 1920:

East Asian expedition. On 22 July 1900 the German envoy in Peking, Baron von Ketteler, on the way to the Chinese Foreign Office was murdered. As answer of Germany troops of all kinds a comprehensive Detachement in strength and composition of a division under the name "East Asian expedition corps" was formed from volunteers of the entire army - 120,000 had announced themselves . The total strength of the troop amounted to approximately 15000 men, under which 55 companies equal 10000 infantrymen , 4 Squadrons with 600 men Kavallerie and 10 batteries with 2500 artillerymen. In the last days of July the expedition, partially by the Emperor personally discharged, left under the command of the Major General von Lessel on 10 steamers in different relays Bremerhaven and probably-keeps in the middle of met Septembers before Taku in. There the Count Waldersee, who was entrusted over the international troops on suggestion of Russia with the supreme command, arrived approximately simultaneously. The situation was in as much militarily very unclear as a hostile main army, which one would have crucially to strike and thus the desired peace conditions to force to be able, was missing.Count Waldersee had to be essentially limited therefore to the cleaning of the province Tschili and the safety device of the course Tientsin Peking. As special center of the Boxerbanden was Poatingfu, which capital of Tschili, well-known. Count Waldersee set therefore on 15 October. at the same time 1900 of Tientsin and of Peking consisted of two route columns, those together of 4200 Germans, 3500 Englishmen and 3100 Frenchmen, there in motion. Since the Boxers sought to evade everywhere, it came only on the rear march with Tsekiang Wan at the large wall and with Kungan to considerable victorious engagements with regular troops. A second larger course after Kalgan, which is distant for 200 km from Peking, ran unblutig. Only on 23 and 24 April 1901 came it against all expecting with Huolo, 30 km von Tschengteng to a serious weapon course, in that 5000 Germans 15000 Chinese, who wanted to penetrate from Schansi into the province Tschili, bloodily back-threw. The Germans had 8 dead and 51 wounded, among them 6 officers. The negotiations with China had so far prospered to at the beginning of of June 1901 that the emperor in agreement with remaining powers could relieve the count Waldersee of his position as commanders in chief and the repatriation of the German troops began.

3 infantry regiments, 1 field artillery department, 1 pioneer and a Trainkompagnie, together about 3600 men, first still stayed in China. For some years the East Asian expedition corps is completely dissolved. Germany maintains only 650 men the strong East Asian Marinedetachement, which is subordinate to the Gouvernement Kiautschou, and is stationed in Peking, Tientsin, Hankau and Tsingtau.

User avatar
Peter H
Member
Posts: 28628
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Post by Peter H » 31 Oct 2005 09:59

Did all of the Ostasiatisches Marine-Detachement pull out of Peking,Tsientsin in 1914,and move to Tsingtau?

The reason I ask is because the Americans at Tsientsin didn't take over their barracks there until 1917,the same year China declared war on Germany.Also if there were three Marine companies making up the Detachment why do some sources only quote 500 men(2 companies) reinforcing Tsingtau?

User avatar
Chris Dale
Host - German Colonies
Posts: 1918
Joined: 21 Apr 2004 14:48
Location: UK

Post by Chris Dale » 31 Oct 2005 14:30

Hi Peter,
Thanks for the notes on the further resizing in 1906. I hadn't noticed that before.
From what I read, the three companies of the East Asian Marine Detachment left Peking and Tientsin for Tsingtao in 1914. They left behind a small garrison at their bases. These remaining troops were interned in 1917 when China joined the war. I've got no info on how small the remaining garrisons were, that might explain the shortage you noticed in the Tsingtao garrison though. Does anyone know exactly how small the remaining garrisons were?
Cheers
Chris

User avatar
Peter H
Member
Posts: 28628
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Post by Peter H » 31 Oct 2005 15:11

Thanks Chris--but at a time of war how did the German,Russian,French and Japanese garrisons at Tienstin co-exist?

I've posted these photos before--from: http://www.germanpostcards.com

Returning from China,via Vienna,or in fact heading off to the East?:


Image
http://www.germanpostcards.com/images/202808.jpg

Image
http://www.germanpostcards.com/images/202809.jpg

User avatar
Chris Dale
Host - German Colonies
Posts: 1918
Joined: 21 Apr 2004 14:48
Location: UK

Post by Chris Dale » 31 Oct 2005 16:02

Good question about the co-existence of allied and central garrisons. I don't have any information on that. That probably points to there being no trouble and the fact that they were in a neutral country would make hostilities illegal.
Cheers
Chris

User avatar
AKR
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: 27 Oct 2005 11:56
Location: South Africa

East Asian Expeditionary Force

Post by AKR » 31 Oct 2005 20:06

As I understand it the East Asian Occupational force took over from the Expeditionary force before the end of 1901 and probably around July 1901. They were chosen from members of the Expeditionary Force to the best of my knowledge .The new C.I.C was Gen Maj Rohrscheid. Troops were stationed in various places i.e. Tientsin, Shanghai, Schan hai Kwan, Peking, Lanfang, Tangku, Yangtsun. There were 3 Infantrie Regiments , a squadron of mounted Jäger, a field battery division, an engineers company, a half company of medical corps, two field hospitals and medical personnel, one transport company This is from the 1902 Rank List.
They were equipped with new uniforms and swords designed specifically for them.Their bayonets were the same as previous but fitted with wood handles instead of brass.
I am looking for good photos of their sidearms

User avatar
Peter H
Member
Posts: 28628
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Post by Peter H » 05 Nov 2005 12:56

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
AKR
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: 27 Oct 2005 11:56
Location: South Africa

Pictures

Post by AKR » 05 Nov 2005 18:10

Famous print of Germans
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Return to “German Colonies and Overseas Expeditions”