Were Soldiers of the Waffen SS Nazi Soldiers

Einsamer_Wolf · Post by **Einsamer_Wolf** » 12 Sep 2004 17:51

SALUT!

In the forum, The Wehrmacht in War and Peace, there is a thread asking simply if German soldiers were synonymous with being Nazi soldiers. I contribtued to the thread, and now I want to ask the same of the Waffen SS.
My question is inspired from recent reading. As some of you know, I recently finished Bleuel's Sex and Society in Nazi Germany. I do not know what to make of it. The error seems to be that imputes outlandish policies, many of them hush-hush, with the Volk in general. Happily, it does recount some instances in which certain vile policeis met with popular condemnation, however.
The specific passage that inspired this thread relates to Himmler's infamous Russian-women-digging-tank-ditches-for-Germany speech, in which he refers to Eastern Europeans as "human animals." The speech was given, if I recall correctly, to a group of Waffen SS generals.
What I want to know is what the audience made of this. Did they agree in this kind of philosophy, or did they remain quiet out of fear and intimidation?
For those who do not know, Black Edelweiss was written by an Waffen SS PoW, who recounts his experiences, his reasons for volunteering, against what he learned after the war. In short, he volunteered because he believed in the struggle against the Bolshevism of Europe. In short, the book so far portrays the author and Waffen SS soldiers in a more benign light.
So what do forum contributors think? Do they think speeches like those of Himmler displaying a crass disregard for human life while describing russian women as "human animals" resonated with the rank and file of The Waffen SS? Did it resonate with men like Paul Hausser, Michael Wittman?

Einsamer Wolf

Mehmet Fatih · Post by **Mehmet Fatih** » 12 Sep 2004 23:30

i think they were not totally nazis.but nazis were dominant in waffen ss.the rest were scared of government terror.they were disliked by wehrmacht soldiers because of being nazis(generally for having better equipment than them).most of the warcrimes in ww2 were commited by waffen ss.

Daniel L · Post by **Daniel L** » 13 Sep 2004 00:14

waffen_für _alle wrote:i think they were not totally nazis.but nazis were dominant in waffen ss.the rest were scared of government terror.they were disliked by wehrmacht soldiers because of being nazis(generally for having better equipment than them).most of the warcrimes in ww2 were commited by waffen ss.

Nonsense.

Best regards/ Daniel

Einsamer_Wolf · Post by **Einsamer_Wolf** » 13 Sep 2004 00:35

D. Löwenhamn wrote:
waffen_für _alle wrote:i think they were not totally nazis.but nazis were dominant in waffen ss.the rest were scared of government terror.they were disliked by wehrmacht soldiers because of being nazis(generally for having better equipment than them).most of the warcrimes in ww2 were commited by waffen ss.
Nonsense.

Best regards/ Daniel

That was insightufl, Daniel. Do you care to offer your analysis on my post?

EW

Christoph Awender · Post by **Christoph Awender** » 13 Sep 2004 01:28

To such discussion about stereotypes and overall generalization I always just can say.... do you think all americans weigh over 100kg and love burgers?
I think this says it all.

\Christoph

Einsamer_Wolf · Post by **Einsamer_Wolf** » 13 Sep 2004 02:08

Christoph Awender wrote:To such discussion about stereotypes and overall generalization I always just can say.... do you think all americans weigh over 100kg and love burgers?
I think this says it all.

\Christoph

No but many, many do... so that would indicate that stereotypes and generalizations have truth to them...

EW

Christoph Awender · Post by **Christoph Awender** » 13 Sep 2004 03:06

Yes and many W-SS soldiers were nazis through and through while many others had thousands of other motivations and thoughts. So this discussion is in my oppinion as usefull as discussing if all americans love burgers. What do you want to achieve with such a discussion?

\Christoph

Einsamer_Wolf · Post by **Einsamer_Wolf** » 13 Sep 2004 03:29

Christopher--

Did you read my original post? I guess ultimately I am trying to discern what the rank and file German was fighting for. I would like to hope they were not fighting for the philosophy espoused in Himmler's speech.
One last thing--the term Nazi should be qualified. Anyone care to try and offer a working defintiion?

EW

Christoph Awender · Post by **Christoph Awender** » 13 Sep 2004 03:39

Einsamer_Wolf wrote:..... I would like to hope they were not fighting for the philosophy espoused in Himmler's speech.
.....

Many did and many did not. What for do we need a discussion about this? You want to discuss the hundred thousands of attitudes all these
individuals had?

Tolga Alkan · Post by **Tolga Alkan** » 13 Sep 2004 09:53

Soldiers of the Waffen-SS were all volunteer and they knew that the SS was one of the most important part of Nazi ideology for pre-war period.However a number of them volunteered to Waffen-SS for defending country late times of war in my opinion.

Best Regards
Tolga

Daniel L · Post by **Daniel L** » 13 Sep 2004 12:36

Tolga Alkan wrote:Soldiers of the Waffen-SS were all volunteer

That's not true.

Best regards/ Daniel

Daniel L · Post by **Daniel L** » 13 Sep 2004 12:38

Einsamer_Wolf wrote:Do you care to offer your analysis on my post?

No, I don't. I agree with Christoph's statements.

Best regards/ Daniel

Doppleganger · Post by **Doppleganger** » 13 Sep 2004 13:11

Ok so what was the relationship between the Heer and Waffen SS units? I've always heard that the Heer regarded the Waffen SS with repugnance while the SS regarded the Heer with contempt.

BTW I'm fairly sure there were just as many Nazi's in the Heer as were in the Waffen SS. Remember at the time it really was not a bad thing to be a Nazi in Germany. That term had nothing of the connotations it does have today.

Tom Houlihan · Post by **Tom Houlihan** » 13 Sep 2004 14:55

I've gotten answers from 2 Germans who ended up in the SS. One wanted to an elite force. The other said that when the Heer, Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine, and SS recruiters came to his school, the SS guy simply did a better job of selling his organization.

No politics.

Christoph Awender · Post by **Christoph Awender** » 13 Sep 2004 15:08

We had this kind of discussion so many times here and that is why my answers are quite short and probably sound a little bit annoyed.

Tolga I would recommend you to get some more information about this topic before you say that all members of the W-SS were volunteers. This is simply not correct!!! So please inform yourself about this and then contribute again in this discussion.

\Christoph