Krema 2

[Dan]

Here is a link to an article from a respected European Journal which seems to say that the Auschwitz death tolls are greatly exaggerated. Comments please.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Osteurop ... eyer1.html

[Dan]

Here are some of Irving's comments on the article. I've often wondered if the numbers killed at Auschwitz wouldn't finally drop to the 340,000 thousand found at the Polish trials. This numbe would still be evil, I hasten to add as a caveat.

In the mail is a photocopy of a learned paper tucked away in Osteuropa's issue for May 2002, a respected German journal on eastern Euroepan history (DVA), Fritjof Meyer, a leading editor of Der Spiegel, quietly abandons Krema II at Auschwitz as a gas chamber, saying -- on the basis of Pelt's latest research finds -- that it was never used, and only being prepared for possible use as one (yeah, right); until now, it was claimed that a million souls perished in that underground mortuary, with cyanide dropped through holes in the roof. We even had video, which I showed in court, of Professor Robert Jan Van Pelt sobbing on the roof of Krema II and calling this building the epicenter of the world's genocide history.

Now Meyer writes that all the killings, such as they were, were done off site in the two "bunkers" (i.e. the converted peasant cottages of which the Auschwitz officials Aumeier and Höss both talked, and which I freely agreed at the trial may have been used on a modest scale for gassings). That is, unless I have read the paper completely wrongly. Meyer also cuts the number killed there from 4,000,000 to not much over 300,000, which is close to what the Kraków Trial found in 1947. [Video, 2.6MB, Avi]

In delicious vignettes, Meyer reveals too that

until the Soviet collapse in 1989 Auschwitz staff were promised instant dismissal if they publicly doubted the figures: but he himself still goes on to quote as an authority the very Auschwitz official, Franciszek Piper, a communist (and Jewish) "historian", who issued the threats of dismissal; and that
my old enemy and rival, the late Martin Broszat, quietly deleted from his "scientific" publication of the Rudolf Höss memoirs all the blatantly phoney figures which might otherwise have aroused scepticism.

[Hans]

In the mail is a photocopy of a learned paper tucked away in Osteuropa's issue for May 2002, a respected German journal on eastern Euroepan history (DVA), Fritjof Meyer, a leading editor of Der Spiegel, quietly abandons Krema II at Auschwitz as a gas chamber, saying -- on the basis of Pelt's latest research finds -- that it was never used, and only being prepared for possible use as one (yeah, right);

Meyer's thesis is historically totally unfounded. Note that he does not refute the evidence for the fact that the gas-chambers in Auschwitz-Birkenau were in operation in 1943 and 1944. Instead of addressing the evidence he simply says he cannot go into detail.

Now Meyer writes that all the killings, such as they were, were done off site in the two "bunkers"

Meyer may write whatever he wants. Since he fails to adress the evidence that refutes his thesis, his claim has little value.

my old enemy and rival, the late Martin Broszat, quietly deleted from his "scientific" publication of the Rudolf Höss memoirs all the blatantly phoney figures which might otherwise have aroused scepticism.

Irving is wrong. Broszat has not quietly deleted "all the blatantly phoney figures" from Höss's memoirs "which might otherwise have aroused scepticism"

Broszat has not reproduced the last two pages of Höss' manuscript about the final solution of the Jewish question in Auschwitz. However, he has clearly stated in a footnote that he has done this, why he has done this and summarized what Höss wrote in these last pages including "the blatantly phoney figures". In fact, Broszat has done precisely what I expect from a scientist when he edits memoirs from an important witness.

On the other hand, Irving is wrong that Broszat has quietly deleted the figures.
Broszat has marked the deletion with ". . . . . ." plus a footnote informing the reader that he has not reproduced the last two pages and why.

Irving is wrong that Broszat has deleted the figures because otherwise they might have aroused scepticism. Broszat clearly wrote in his summary of the last two pages that Höss gave totally wrong figures for some countries ("völlig abwegige Angaben") and as an example he gave the figure for Bulgaria.

In other words, Broszat has well informed his readers, Irving has spread lies about him.

[Roberto]

Here are some of Irving's comments on the article. I've often wondered if the numbers killed at Auschwitz wouldn't finally drop to the 340,000 thousand found at the Polish trials. This numbe would still be evil, I hasten to add as a caveat.

According to William Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, camp commandant Rudolf Höss stated at his trial that the death toll of Auschwitz-Birkenau had been 1,135,000. The figures Höss gave in Appendix 1 to his memoirs add up to 1,130,000. The order of magnitude indicated by Höss is in line with the results of posterior research by historians such as Reitlinger, Hilberg and Piper.

Considering this, I find it very hard to believe that the "Polish trials" should have concluded on a mere 340,000 deaths.

[Hebden]

Here is a link to an article from a respected European Journal which seems to say that the Auschwitz death tolls are greatly exaggerated. Comments please.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Osteurop ... eyer1.html

Man the lifeboats!

[Scott Smith]

Man the lifeboats!

[Dan]

If it does turn out to be true, what should we call the lie? Soap libel sounds nice, The Swiss Extortion seems apropriate, the Laughable Lampshade will do, but we will need a name (like Blood Libel) for this 1,000,000 man deception.

[Luca]

on a mere 340,000 deaths.

MERE ????

[Charles Bunch]

Here are some of Irving's comments on the article. I've often wondered if the numbers killed at Auschwitz wouldn't finally drop to the 340,000 thousand found at the Polish trials. This numbe would still be evil, I hasten to add as a caveat.

According to William Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, camp commandant Rudolf Höss stated at his trial that the death toll of Auschwitz-Birkenau had been 1,135,000. The figures Höss gave in Appendix 1 to his memoirs add up to 1,130,000. The order of magnitude indicated by Höss is in line with the results of posterior research by historians such as Reitlinger, Hilberg and Piper.

Considering this, I find it very hard to believe that the "Polish trials" should have concluded on a mere 340,000 deaths.

The Polish courts reached no such conclusion.

This is yet another old denier canard.

[Charles Bunch]

Here is a link to an article from a respected European Journal which seems to say that the Auschwitz death tolls are greatly exaggerated. Comments please.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/Osteurop ... eyer1.html

Man the lifeboats!

Based on what?

Oh I forgot, you two find insinuation and assertion powerful arguments!

[Scott Smith]

Charles, a sense of humor once in awhile would strengthen your arguments because it shows one in a more reasonable light.

[Charles Bunch]

Charles, a sense of humor once in awhile would strengthen your arguments because it shows one in a more reasonable light.

Yeah, that was a thigh slapper!

Almost as funny as your attempt at philosophy!

As for arguments, you, and they, don't make them, and don't deal with them.

[Caldric]

Almost as funny as your attempt at philosophy!

Got to admit I missed the humor in the lifeboat thing, but this quote is pretty damn funny...

[Tarpon27]

This is another of those epic events that the Revisionists will scream is the final nail in the coffin of the Holocaust...like, for example, the Leuchter Report.

And from an editor of _Der Spiegel_, that often trashed publication by Revisionists.

And what happened to that Freedom of Speech of argument? A German periodical says no killing in Krema II? I thought that it was impossible to publish such a tale in the oppressive world of European conspiracy against the "truth".

Oh, I guess that doesn't count.

Regards,

Mark

[Dan]

This is another of those epic events that the Revisionists will scream is the final nail in the coffin of the Holocaust...like, for example, the Leuchter Report.

And from an editor of _Der Spiegel_, that often trashed publication by Revisionists.

And what happened to that Freedom of Speech of argument? A German periodical says no killing in Krema II? I thought that it was impossible to publish such a tale in the oppressive world of European conspiracy against the "truth".

Oh, I guess that doesn't count.

Regards,

Mark

No, as long as there is a gratuitous insult to Irving, the Germans let it slide.

The Germans are maturing, and the antiFreespeech laws will eventually fade away.

What I think is happining, is that the German establishment is preparing everyone to accept the 1.3 million/bugspray story wasn't right, just like the Homicidal gas chambers in Germany, and Soap Libel.

Even the Nizkor fans on this board no longer defend Soap Libel, which is a change from even 6 months ago on this board. Until the important post by honest Hans, who totally shattered the old Soviet myth that there were experiments done to make soap from Jew fat. There were not even attempts made.

I feel that the 1,000,000 killed by bug spray will also fall, and articles like this are just preparing us for it.