For what reason did Hitler go to war with Russia?

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Shc
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For what reason did Hitler go to war with Russia?

Post by Shc » 07 Oct 2004 02:33

I honestly never understood why Hitler ever went in a war against the Soviet Union. I always hear stuff like "he wanted Lebensraum for his Aryan race" but is that the real reason why he went to war with Russia?

Im sure there's more than that...! isin't there? We gotta know that this is still the same person that led the Germans into incredible victories while taking calculated risk.

Why would he risk his Wehrmacht or any kind of casualtie when he already had an incredible victory in France? I could understand he predicted a victory before winter 1941 but even with that, why would he risk everything that he won for....Russia?

Surely, he considered all the risks if he went in a war with the SU like he did with every other "risks" he took.

Dunno, could someone tell me why Hitler went on a war with the Soviet Union? I just can't figure out a "logical" explanation :x

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John W
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Post by John W » 07 Oct 2004 02:48

Frankly speaking, I always thought that his war with France and UK were 'sideshows' (no offense really) to the big one in the SU. Not only his racial ideas, but also his 'War against Bolshevism' must have certainly influenced him.

Lets not forget the immense resources of the SU, suerly they must have played a hand in the Dictators mind...

But ultimately, I think it had a lot to do with his 'War of the Races'.

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Post by Huck » 07 Oct 2004 21:02

John W wrote: But ultimately, I think it had a lot to do with his 'War of the Races'.
:D :D

The reason was very simple. In order to affirm Germany as a continental power, they had to defeat France and GB. France fell quite easily. If the war with GB would have lasted more than one month, then USSR would have attacked Germany. If the war would have been short, then USSR could negotiate with Germany as allies.

Basically the choice Hitler had to make was: invade GB and be invaded by USSR or invade USSR and be attacked by GB (most likely together with US). We know the choice Hitler made.

Of course Ribbentrop - Molotov Pact was a political breakthrough that stunned the Western countries. With it Hitler gained some time, however invading GB meant the same thing for Germany, be invaded by USSR, regardless of the Ribbentrop - Molotov pact.

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Post by Shc » 08 Oct 2004 01:04

If the war with GB would have lasted more than one month, then USSR would have attacked Germany
Is there even any proof of this? I have heard it before but how can we say for sure if the USSR would attack Germany? :?

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Robert Rojas
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RE: For What Reason Did Hitler Go To War With Russia?

Post by Robert Rojas » 08 Oct 2004 07:25

Greetings to both cousin Jose Francis and the community as a whole. Well Jose, in respect to your introductory posting generated on Thursday - October 07, 2004 - 2:33am, old Uncle Bob would like to recommend the following work of literature which might or might not provide the concise answer that you seek. The literary work in question is entitled as MEIN KAMPF and the author is none other than Adolph Hitler himself. The all knowing Bohemian Corporal is quite specific about his projected aims for that massive slice of geography known as Russia. In order to fathom the WAR IN THE EAST, it is absolutely necessary to understand the pathological machinations which drove his morbid fixations. MEIN KAMPF fits the bill rather "nicely". It's just a friendly suggestion. ENJOY! In anycase, I would like to bid you a copacetic day up in the GREAT WHITE NORTH of Francophonic Canada - EH!?

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob 8)

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Post by 20/20 vision » 08 Oct 2004 12:05

JoseFrancis wrote:
If the war with GB would have lasted more than one month, then USSR would have attacked Germany
Is there even any proof of this? I have heard it before but how can we say for sure if the USSR would attack Germany? :?
Stalin always new that war would come between the ussr and germany but didnt know when.

zhukov did put forward the notion of a pre-emptive strike on germany in 1941, stalin and most of the military didnt feel that russia would be in a strong enough position to attack germany before 1943, the red army was still being reformed and modernized in mid 1941.

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Post by Eightball » 09 Oct 2004 00:57

It was certainly the "Bolchevik threat", which was one of the driving factors. Hitler, as we all know, saw the jews as the major problem of Europe, and the SU was, according to him, a state filled with jews and slavs. Untermensch in other words. So, besides lebensraum, racial ideology was a major driveforce.

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Re: For what reason did Hitler go to war with Russia?

Post by Topspeed » 09 Oct 2004 11:05

JoseFrancis wrote:I honestly never understood why Hitler ever went in a war against the Soviet Union. I always hear stuff like "he wanted Lebensraum for his Aryan race" but is that the real reason why he went to war with Russia?
I think his destiny was to do it. He had written about it. He negotiated many times with Molotov up to 1940. He was convinced that soviets were a threat and desided to strike first. Unfortunately he did not know the reality of the size and weather in Russia. He was possibly too overconfident after easy wins at the west and saw that if finns were able to fight back a tenfold enemy in Winter War surely their awesome blitzkrieg machine would do too.

Finns during the Winter War when defending from dug in positions were able to gain nearly 10:1 killratio. It is a lot harder to attack since in Continuation War the ratio fell into 1,8:1 at the attck phase.
I don't think Germans did much better than that and it was not enough..there were soldiers more than double in Soviet / Russia. Also their motorized vehicles were not fit to wage a war in winter conditions. Soviets made reaping holes in the lines of the Wehrmacht already in the winter of 1941-42.

I wonder also if Hitler had also other motives that he had never written on paper ( like the annihilation of european jews etc. ), that made him do the attrocities that we know and read so much here at the AHF. I think his attack on USSR was based on wrong intelligent reports ( too optimistic ) and his older views of the Greater Deutschland; in other words, he was nuts.

rgds,

Juke

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Post by Shc » 09 Oct 2004 16:13

So... just another question, did Hitler knew that their motorized vehicles/panzer tanks would have a lot of difficulties during the winter? It seemed he was certain the war with Russia would end before fall and he didn't prepare any winter clothes for his Wehrmacht soldiers.

Btw, could the Jews extermination based on the conflict between Russia? The holocaust started in 1942 right? Wasn't that when the Wehrmacht were far deep into the SU's territory and needed additional supplies? Could it be that Himmler decided to cut the Jews supplies in order to give them to the Wehrmacht...meaning that they have to kill (later exterminate) Jews so that they could make profits for the Third Reich?
Dunno, just wondering.

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Post by Jaybird » 10 Oct 2004 10:51

JoseFrancis wrote:So... just another question, did Hitler knew that their motorized vehicles/panzer tanks would have a lot of difficulties during the winter? It seemed he was certain the war with Russia would end before fall and he didn't prepare any winter clothes for his Wehrmacht soldiers.

He probably thought that the war on SU would be a Blitzkrieg... don´t forget that the man had a greater love for his own pathetic megalomania than for reality. Also, he always let other people deal with the practical matters that followed his insane orders. I think he lived in his own world, where things like winter clothes just didn´t matter. :roll:
JoseFrancis wrote:Btw, could the Jews extermination based on the conflict between Russia? The holocaust started in 1942 right? Wasn't that when the Wehrmacht were far deep into the SU's territory and needed additional supplies? Could it be that Himmler decided to cut the Jews supplies in order to give them to the Wehrmacht...meaning that they have to kill (later exterminate) Jews so that they could make profits for the Third Reich?
Dunno, just wondering.


Well, most Jews in Eastern Europe really wheren´t that rich. Actually, a large part of them where quite poor. Don´t forget that there was always a wide-spread antisemitism in Eastern Europe, so Jews where basically outsiders.

Jewish citizen´s wealth did certainly matter, because many times, "aryans" could benefit from Jewish peoples "dissappearing". Their houses, their companies, their belongings... it was all sold very cheaply once the owners had been deported. And it wouldn´t surprise me if some SA- or Gestapo officers just briefly let their hands slip into peoples jewelry-boxes during arrestments.

But I would consider this as some sort of side effect.

Also, I wouldn´t mix up the military situation with the Shoa. You won´t find any military reason to kill millions of civilians... that subject has it´s very own history.

In short, I would say it way a lethal mixture of one man´s insanity, and too many people´s everyday racism, antisemitic prejudice, looking-the-other-way, fear, heartless bureaucracy, emotional stupidity and lack of the most basic respect and empathy.

And sadism of course, although i believe it is greatly overrated in this context.

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Post by menel » 15 Oct 2004 15:05

War between soviet Russia and nazi Germany setern long before it started because Hitler and Stalin targets were complitely opposite.
Hitler -Lebensraum in the east and distroying Jews and Slavs.
Stalin- soviet republik of Europa
Simply their both were "the bad guys" and a clash was unavoidable.

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Post by Christian W. » 15 Oct 2004 15:29

The war with SU could have been prevented, but Stalin demanded Romania, Bulgaria and Finland (! ), and anyone who has a decent IQ would have said NO. It wasnt Hitlers fault that Stalin didnt get Finland after it was promised to him.. :lol: Poor Stalin..
Last edited by Christian W. on 16 Oct 2004 19:44, edited 2 times in total.

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Victor
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Post by Victor » 15 Oct 2004 22:59

Christian W. wrote: Romia
:? Romia? You probably mean Romania.

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Post by Christian W. » 16 Oct 2004 19:42

:lol:

Whops me! Sorry. :oops: Where did I leave A and N :lol: .... :oops: :oops:

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Post by Eistir » 20 Oct 2004 19:26

Huck wrote:
John W wrote: But ultimately, I think it had a lot to do with his 'War of the Races'.
:D :D

The reason was very simple. In order to affirm Germany as a continental power, they had to defeat France and GB. France fell quite easily. If the war with GB would have lasted more than one month, then USSR would have attacked Germany. If the war would have been short, then USSR could negotiate with Germany as allies.


quote]

Didn't France and GB declared war to Germany in the beginning?And we all know why they was declaring war to Germany, because of Poland.Now, my question is,why they was declaring war only against Germany and not against SU?SU was taking over other side of Poland and they comitting atrocities against poles and Polands allies didn't want to know anything about it.
It looks pretty much conspiracy against Germany to me.

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